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Old 11-05-2021, 03:47 AM
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Default Right way to replace valve cover gasket / how much torque?

I'm replacing the leaky valve cover gaskets on my '71 Formula 400. It's weird how it's just one of those minor jobs where there's little consensus on the correct way to do it. I've been told everything from apply sealant on both sides of the cork, to put the sealer between the cover and gasket only. One guy I know swears by putting vaseline between gasket and head; another uses 3M spray adhesive to glue the gasket to the cover.

I know if I ask you guys on here I'll learn the right way to do it.

As far as torquing it: a manual I have says the covers should be torqued to 8 lb/ft -- but with "4 lb/ft increments." Does that mean tighten all the bolts to 4, then retighten each to 8?

Thanks in advance for your expertise --

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Old 11-05-2021, 08:59 AM
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Me personally, I only use rubber v/c gaskets not cork. I make sure the bolt holes are not dimpled from previous overtightening. The gaskets do not need any sealer technically but I do use Ultra Grey or Ultra Black on the v/c side just to make sure the gasket stays in place while installing. V/C bolts only need to be snug and should not bend the v/c. Once you start tweaking the v/c it bows the rail and compromises the seal.

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Old 11-05-2021, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankieT/A View Post
Me personally, I only use rubber v/c gaskets not cork. I make sure the bolt holes are not dimpled from previous overtightening. The gaskets do not need any sealer technically but I do use Ultra Grey or Ultra Black on the v/c side just to make sure the gasket stays in place while installing. V/C bolts only need to be snug and should not bend the v/c. Once you start tweaking the v/c it bows the rail and compromises the seal.
I do mine the same way with the exception I use regular RTV, rather than the super adhesive RTV on the valve cover side.

I also straighten the tin on the edge of a bench vise jaw before I glue the gasket to the valve cover. I also like to leave the RTV to set up for at least 10 minutes before screwing it to the head, that's not always possible in some instances, but RTV that skins over doesn't tend to ooze out as much.

If available I also prefer rubber/neoprene gaskets, not all applications have them available, so if using cork I use the same method. When you could still get valve cover gaskets from the Pontiac parts departments, they were top quality gaskets. If using cork, and you expect you're going to be removing them frequently, a liberal coating of grease, or aforementioned petroleum jelly on the head side will keep the cork from sticking, necessitating replacement.

I always kept a pretty good stock of GM gaskets on hand when I operated my business. It was much cheaper to just buy the gaskets you needed, rather than buy gasket kits and have a ton of leftover gaskets that you ended up storing, "just in case" you ever needed one.

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Old 11-05-2021, 11:55 AM
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I use cork glued to the VC and a little grease on the head side.
For glue I use Indian Head . Seems appropriate to me. ��

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Old 11-05-2021, 12:10 PM
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I don't like using regular RTV on anything oil related, but that's me. Nothing against Brad he's been doing this a long time. Also, I always "key in" my sealants.

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Old 11-05-2021, 12:55 PM
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After working in a GM dealership in the early eighties where there were virtually no gaskets used in engine, and automatic transmissions. I got schooled on what, and how to use RTV and other sealants such as anerobic sealants, etc. Of all the GM engines we disassembled that used nothing but RTV sealants, the presence of RTV in the pan, or oil pump was very rare.

The key is letting it sit for 10-15 minutes before assembling it, as I referred to in my first post. That wait time changes RTV assembly a lot. Most people put the RTV on, and assemble it wet, there's where the problem comes in that you end up with strings in the oil pan, and pump from that procedure. The people that make it, always say to wait before assembly, but most males don't read, or follow instructions well,,,,,,,,,,,,

Seems the younger we are, the less likely we are to read the instructions, until we screw it up.........LOL

I have to confess, I used to assemble stuff with wet RTV too. until I had comebacks and it cost me money to repair comebacks for free. Doing a job over for free affecting your take home pay, makes you rethink how you perform work.

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Old 11-05-2021, 01:40 PM
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valve cover gaskets are probably one of the better ones to ask about because I cannot think of another gasket, that when improperly installed, will so quickly result in your engine becoming an oily mess.

I have used blue or black rtv;
I prefer the rubber valve cover gaskets, but will use what ever is more economical or handy;
I will place a little bit of silicone on the inside of the valve cover then carefully set the gasket in place;
I don't have a set time, but will not tighten the valve cover in place for probably fifteen minutes or more;
I will often set it in place and hand thread the bolts to the point where the bolt is barely touching the valve cover - then busy myself with something else to let the silicone cure a bit.
After a duration, I will go back and hand tighten it being careful to not over torque;
I use a stubby ratchet with my hand right at the ratchet head and do it so that it's just a bit more than snug.
Hopefully that makes sense.
You want to suck the valve cover down, but not distort the valve cover bolt holes or pinch the gasket too tight.

Speaking of which - I will also always look at the valve cover, and take a little bit of time to flatten the bolt holes if they have been distorted.

I will also go back after a couple heat cylces ect to ensure that the bolts haven't backed off.

I have observed that people will gob on the silicone then set it all together while the silicone is wet, and over tighten it - doing this pretty much guarantees that you squish all of the silicone out of place, and negate it's presence around the valve cover bolts.

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1970 Formula 400
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Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


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2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 11-05-2021, 01:52 PM
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I do it the same but I always put a little silicone on the head side at the lower corners. About 6" in the back and 2" up. Seems they leak there for me, and there will be a pool of oil there when you take the cover off.

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Old 11-05-2021, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirrotica View Post
After working in a GM dealership in the early eighties where there were virtually no gaskets used in engine, and automatic transmissions. I got schooled on what, and how to use RTV and other sealants such as anerobic sealants, etc. Of all the GM engines we disassembled that used nothing but RTV sealants, the presence of RTV in the pan, or oil pump was very rare.

The key is letting it sit for 10-15 minutes before assembling it, as I referred to in my first post. That wait time changes RTV assembly a lot. Most people put the RTV on, and assemble it wet, there's where the problem comes in that you end up with strings in the oil pan, and pump from that procedure. The people that make it, always say to wait before assembly, but most males don't read, or follow instructions well,,,,,,,,,,,,

Seems the younger we are, the less likely we are to read the instructions, until we screw it up.........LOL

I have to confess, I used to assemble stuff with wet RTV too. until I had comebacks and it cost me money to repair comebacks for free. Doing a job over for free affecting your take home pay, makes you rethink how you perform work.
starting in '78 Our Pontiac dealership used 'GMS" and, like you said , was replacing gaskets. We had a class in house on how to use it. I used to have extra but it finally dried up. It was bright reddish in color.
EDIT: GMS = General Motors Sealer

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Old 11-05-2021, 04:24 PM
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Okay good, thank you all. I made some little plates out of 1/4" scrap metal to flatten the bolt holes, put them above and below the hole then used a strong clamp. Seemed to work well.

One last thing -- is THIS a reasonably good rattlecan match for the 1971 engine / valve covers? Or Dupli-Color DE 1610?

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Old 11-05-2021, 05:51 PM
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the correct blue is 1971-1973.5;
The assertion that any colour is 1971-1976 is plain wrong.

The colour changed part way through the 1973 model year to denote the EGR change;
The 1971-1973.5 colour is something of an eggshell blue, while the 1973.5-1974 is a darker colour closer to the corporate blue.

That's where my clarity in knowledge falls off;
I know that 1975-1977 used a dark blue metallic colour - but I believe I recall reading that a colour change happened in 1977...
I recall pulling 6X-8's off of an early 1977 400 'L78' (non-W72) motor, and was surprised to see it was the hue that I more associated with 1975-1976.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 11-05-2021, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulabruce View Post
starting in '78 Our Pontiac dealership used 'GMS" and, like you said , was replacing gaskets. We had a class in house on how to use it. I used to have extra but it finally dried up. It was bright reddish in color.
EDIT: GMS = General Motors Sealer
Every oil leak that was noted on the RO, you went and got a new tube of GMS. It didn't take long to build up a good sized stock of it to take home and do side jobs with.....LOL

As I mentioned before, I always tried to use GM gaskets when working on Pontiacs. In 1973 I bought a 69 GTO that I assume was over revved, and suffered a broken push rod. Imagine my surprise when the parts man (which I knew very well) came out with all the attendant gaskets I had asked for, except there was no valley cover gasket, but he did have a tube of black GMS in his hand. He then goes on to explain that Pontiac has dropped the cork gasket they've been using for years (since 1955), and has substituted this new fangled RTV stuff for it. I was skeptical at first, but I reluctantly tried it, and it worked perfectly. I've never used a cork gasket for a valley cover on a Pontiac since. Pontiac as far as I know was the first GM division to replace a gasket with RTV.

Since valley covers tend to get the crap beaten out of them during removal they tend to be less than straight. I always attempt to get them flat again before installing one, but the RTV is soooo much more forgiving on sealing an imperfect surface, you never have to worry about it leaking with RTV, compared to a cork valley cover gasket.

I'm certain there will be some dissenting views on using RTV on a valley cover, but done properly it's the way the factory chose to do it almost 50 years ago. I've put a lot of valley covers on in that time period, never had one leak, or drop RTV into the pan on any of them.

The SBC crew did the same thing with end gaskets on the intake because they're a pain to keep straight when dropping on the intake. I know a lot of chevy builders that never use the end gaskets on a SBC/BBC, just RTV, but you need to follow the directions of the RTV manufacturer so you don't end up with RTV in the pan. It's not the material, it's the installation of it that makes the difference.

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Old 11-05-2021, 08:47 PM
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About the color, I found this on another site.

Pontiac V8 - 1971 until March 15, 1973 approx engine number 532027

Ames FN410H
Classic Industries K89210 Teal/Light Blue, Old number was 62210
Performance Years RPE481 Listed as 73-74. Not sure what color it actually is.
VHT Paints Pontiac Blue SP-122
Bill Hirsch Auto lists incorrect color for these years!
PPG/Ditzler 14580 from paint charts at autocolorlibrary.com

PPG Delstar Acrylic Enamel Formula
Mixing Color Quart Formula
DMR-441 72
DMR-486 148
DMR-411 182
DMR-490 275
DMR-410 385
DMR-400 605
DMR-495 625
DMR-499 1025

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Old 11-05-2021, 11:56 PM
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For those gaskets I use weather strip adhesive on the valve cover side , after straightening the valve cover if it needs it, then I coat the bottom of he gasket with pan cooking spray and bolt it down . Have yet to have a valve cover leak on my Pontiac. I also use the bars that go on the bolts to spread he load on the rail whenever I can .

Hope that helps

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Old 11-06-2021, 04:09 AM
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I usually just apply some axle grease to gaskets. Tapping from the backside with a small ball pein hammer will flatten the through holes. Valve covers I like the bars also (stock on Corvairs) and tighten just hand tight, about half what I put on a spark plug. guess I learned before silicone was available, generally just a dab at the corners of the valley seal.

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