[Tom Vaught]

I was hit by a pizza truck on the right rear quarter panel and hit on the left rear quarter panel by a 62 Corvette years ago.
I had my rear quarters replaced with Lemans quarters back in the 1982-1983 time frame. I did not try to hide anything,
the welded up Lemans holes are not even cleaned up.

Plus I have no intention of ever selling the car so "playing games" with sheet metalis of no interest to me.
The original 389 engine is on a stand, the 455 engine, 4 wheel disc brakes, 9" Ford rear, and Doug Nash 5
speed trans all say the car has been modified.

It is a piece of sheetmetal. The Documentation John V has says it was and still is a 64 GTO in spirit.

Tom V.

[U47]

[QUOTE=padgett;6297657]During the gas crisis it was common to swap 326-350s into 389-400-421-428-455 engine compartments. ]

What kind of facts do you have to back up that statement??

[BOB VIDAN]

U47, because that's what many people did in the day. There are no facts, just reality. Grow up.

[Scarebird]

[QUOTE=U47;6297801]

Originally Posted by padgett

During the gas crisis it was common to swap 326-350s into 389-400-421-428-455 engine compartments. ]

What kind of facts do you have to back up that statement??

My neighbor in 74 pulled his 396 for a 307 for a couple of years out of his Chevelle, told my dad he was waiting for gas to come down again. He was a pilot for UAL - I guess the commute from Simi to LAX was a bugger...
.

[Greg Reid]

I passed on an Alpine blue 68 GTO because it had a 350 2bbl swapped in... I shouldn't have though. It was a solid driver with a 3spd manual.

[U47]

Originally Posted by BOB VIDAN

U47, because that's what many people did in the day. There are no facts, just reality. Grow up.

Throwing a specious statement out there is foolish. I'm sure it was done, but miniscule compared to the amount of 400"+ in cars that were out there.
If you want to throw personal insults, I suggest the club house.

[Sirrotica]

Many times people beat on muscle cars, and damaged the engines due 99 out of 100 from abuse, and neglect. When the dealership turned down a warranty claim, they had little to no choice than to buy a cheap engine and put it back on the road, as it was their daily transportation, and they were still making payments on it.

If they bought it used, they had maybe a 30 day warranty that meant nothing, and a broken car that they still owed money to the bank on. Used car dealers many time wouldn't even give you a 30 warranty on a used muscle car.

Lots of these cars were sold off for much less than they paid for them, or they were stored away in barns (barn finds). Sometimes they were parked in yards and just left to rot. I've picked up my share of Pontiac muscle cars with blown transmissions, or engine for almost nothing, fix the carnage, and either drive it, or flip it, and turn a profit on it.

If I had a 350/400 2bbl engine lying around, we'd swap on the 4bbl from the grenaded engine, and back on the road, or a for sale sign went on it.

I once bought a 70 Judge with a RA III engine in it that was worn out because they ran a Holley on a Edelbrock P4B with no air cleaner. It also came with a 65 389 out of a Bonneville that was good that the guy bought, but ran out of ambition to install it, $500. The newspaper ad never even mentioned it was a Judge, just said, 70 GTO for sale.

I drove that car as a daily, spun a rod in the RA III, put the 389 in it and then it got wrecked from someone that turned in front of me. Between the insurance money, selling the RA III short block off, and selling what was left of the car. I made a couple thousand dollars over what I paid for the car.

BTW, the car was put back together, and is still around today with a 400 from a 77 T/A in it.

Lots of these cars were bastardized after the born with engine blew up or got taken out and a smaller engine substituted for fuel mileage or just to keep it running. I've seen guys trade a high HP engine for a plain jane engine, and some money, then they let the car get repoed.

Lots of stories when it comes to old muscle cars.

[Tom Vaught]

I have to agree that people installed whatever was available to them when they had a issue with the factory engine or the gas crisis and long drives each day forced them to swap in a smaller engine to get to work and back. Common sense says you do some of that stuff IF NECESSARY.

The post says late 64 GTOs with 326 engines. That implies PRODUCTION ENGINES off the LINE. NEVER HAPPENED.
Premium Gas in 1964-65 was 26 cents a gallon.
No reason to put in a smaller engine AND the factory, as posted, had lots of 64 GTO Engines. So anything in the way
of an engine swap MIGHT BE TRUE at some point in the cars history but NEVER off the line in 1964.

THAT is a FACT.

Tom V.

[pfilean]

OP sounds like so many stories that used to float around. We have all heard them.

"My brother-in-law's nephew bought a new XXX that got 40 mpg. Until the factory security people came and took back the carburetor. It was an experimental model that wasn't supposed to get on the assembly line. The oil companies paid to get it back because they didn't want to lose fuel sales if that model went into production."

Or you are at a cruise night with yourold darksider and somebody starts talking another story. "My cousin bought a Bonneville in 59 with a 421. Fastest thing in the county. Nobody could touch him stop light to stop light."

Great story in a one stop light town. And you never got the story from the guy who had the car. And there is no way to back check the facts and see who started the story. Factory 326 in a GTO. Never happened.

[1_Wild_Cat]

And really who thinking about it would have paid for it -- unless I'm wrong there is nothing on a 64 that couldn't be optioned on a Lemans except the hood and the 389 (in either form). So it is 1964 and you want a "GTO" with a 326HO - order the Lemans with the HD cooling, suspension upgrade and handling package...

From another direction - my 64 is about as late as they come (July 27) and came with a 389 and trips.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 1_Wild_Cat

And really who thinking about it would have paid for it -- unless I'm wrong there is nothing on a 64 that couldn't be optioned on a Lemans except the hood and the 389 (in either form). So it is 1964 and you want a "GTO" with a 326HO - order the Lemans with the HD cooling, suspension upgrade and handling package...

From another direction - my 64 is about as late as they come (July 27) and came with a 389 and trips.

Post up some pics in the lobby. Sounds like a cool vehicle.
Tom V.

[Rich-Tripower]

Ours was built on 7/6/1964. Not the latest, but certainly towards the end of the run.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

... My '64 GTO was built with a Tempest hood. I would think that's one of one. There's a note at the bottom of the build sheet "*Use standard Tempest hood". I need to figure out where I put my PHS stuff.

Did it still have a flat hood on the car when you bought it ?
And do you have a flatty on it now ?

This is most likely your GTO Documentation
- or there are 2 of them out there .

With the Hood being the best part of the 64 GTO exterior , it is hard to imagine why they chose that switch. But maybe since the fake hood scoop craze was still so young at that point - it had not grown on that buyer yet.

As far as a "sleepy" aspect - there is nothing noted about delete GTO badges.
So it would have still announced itself as a GTO
They must not have liked the fake scoops - at all

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 326HO-Lemans

Info was posted on Facebook OHC group. It was attributed to a Fred Simmonds presentation on weird cars Pontiac built. Fred even commented on the post but didn’t correct it. I thought I might of missed something in the 40yrs I’ve been playing with Pontiacs.

Maybe we have missed something , somewhere.
It sounds as though Fred did not object or offer any edits to the statement.
Maybe he has seen some 64 Documentations with 326 4bbl notations.
Obviously none of us are aware of it, or ever seen such an animal or documented example from PHS.

Running out of engines does not sound like a true scenario (imho)
But there could be other explanations to a few exceptions.
Such as the exception with JSchmitz's GTO

[Rich-Tripower]

Not that it is highly relevant here, but the 2005 GTOs were also available to option to the flat hood instead of the hood with scoops. Twelve cars were built this way. I'm going to guess those that still exist probably have had 05/06 hoods swapped onto them by now though.

No clue why anyone then or more recently would have opted away from the scooped hood. Maybe back in the day they had plans to cut a hole in the hood for a big intake or a blower and though it would be easier to cut a flat hood than a scooped hood. Or maybe they just like the look better. People are weird sometimes.

[johnta1]

Did those GTO's have any modified GTO's like the Firebirds had?
Like the ASC conversions, etc?

They had flat hoods installed because they would receive RAM AIR hoods and other mods.

[Goatracer1]

To U47. Sorry about taking so long to answer your question about the trans. It's been so long I don't remember what it had for a trans. In fact I may not have even looked. I know back then you could special order a lot of stuff. Could the owner possible ordered a non-offered engine especially where it would bolt in with no alterations?

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower

...No clue why anyone then or more recently would have opted away from the scooped hood...

My late wife had a 2004 GTO, she commented then that Hondas would try to race her - maybe thinking her GTO was a big Civic? It was bone stock.

They would change their minds and not race or she would flatten them.

[326HO-Lemans]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Maybe we have missed something , somewhere.
It sounds as though Fred did not object or offer any edits to the statement.
Maybe he has seen some 64 Documentations with 326 4bbl notations.
Obviously none of us are aware of it, or ever seen such an animal or documented example from PHS.

Running out of engines does not sound like a true scenario (imho)
But there could be other explanations to a few exceptions.
Such as the exception with JSchmitz's GTO

This is correct. The guy on Facebook was quoting info he heard from Fred at a Pontiac show. Fred chimed in but didn’t speak to the 326Ho in a 64 GTO comment the guy had made.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Did it still have a flat hood on the car when you bought it ?
And do you have a flatty on it now ?

This is most likely your GTO Documentation
- or there are 2 of them out there .

With the Hood being the best part of the 64 GTO exterior , it is hard to imagine why they chose that switch. But maybe since the fake hood scoop craze was still so young at that point - it had not grown on that buyer yet.

As far as a "sleepy" aspect - there is nothing noted about delete GTO badges.
So it would have still announced itself as a GTO
They must not have liked the fake scoops - at all

That might be mine. Don't have my VIN memorized. I'll have to look. My car had a GTO hood on it when I bought it in Springfield, IL in 1985. Also had a 455, different year Muncie, and a Olds 12/10 bolt 3.23 rear. Also had power brakes added, etc. Now I really want to look up my PHS stuff! I think my car was also built with a 3-speed trans. Not sure.