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Old 03-23-2008, 12:49 AM
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citydesk175 citydesk175 is offline
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Default 67 GTO Story (Pontiac Foundry version)

I have heard many stories in 40 years with GM but one puzzler was the 67 GTO that was found on Pontiac Plant property by a fork lift driver who made a wrong turn.

The orange foundry dust covered classic was literally buried near the foundry and was not found for many years after it was driven off final assembly

thats about all I heard for sure but I think I can assume that it was hidden because it was crashed somehow and the driver hid it to save his job

Assunption 2 is that it was taken to the Engineering building to be torn down so that each engineer in the bldg could get a look at how well a car and its parts stand up to the elements for a dozen years

One tricky part is ownership..........Did GM collect on insurance?

And of course......... who wanted to own it?

sigh more stories to come
Citydesk175

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Old 03-23-2008, 08:15 AM
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So - to make sure I am following this -

It was found at a GM foundary? Not at the assembly plant or at the Engineering building?

I've been with GM for 29 years now, in both Manufacturing and Engineering. We do keep vehicles to tear down (for inspection) but that is done at an Engineering facility, not a foundary.

We do occasionally lose a vehicle, but that normally occurs at the assembly plant. Sometimes when the repair lot is full it can get lost in the deepest, darkest recesses of the plant. Normally we would just build another identical vehicle to replace it and then usually the other one will turn up at the model changeover (when the lot gets emptied out).

I have seen Medium Duty trucks, lost in the Pontiac plant, with little trees growing up through the frame rails!

K

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Old 03-23-2008, 09:40 AM
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Default 67 GTO

The car was found at the foundry by the Pontiac Assembly Plant in Pontiac MI. At that time the Plant did a lot more than press metal.

Foundry, assembly, stamping and engine plant... Not to mention Fisher Body. (Pontiac Motor Div Engineering was there too.. Thats where I was for a few years)


I later heard that there might be several model years represented at the haulaway storage area by the plant where a crunched fender could earn a new car a trip to the back fence area of the lot.

I have a couple of stories about other Pontiacs that I personally saw at the Engineering Bldg in early 70's like the Pegasus, TA SD and the mythical GA SD with the blown out sun roof but I have to find the right forum here.

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and more when I learn how to navigate better
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Old 03-23-2008, 04:14 PM
Bob Kazian Bob Kazian is offline
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These stories are of the "Urban Legend" variety that continue to crop up.

They all make out the individuals who worked at GM as being stupid people who didn't know or care what went on.

Personally, I believe they don't even make good stories.

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Old 03-23-2008, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kazian
These stories are of the "Urban Legend" variety that continue to crop up.

They all make out the individuals who worked at GM as being stupid people who didn't know or care what went on.

Personally, I believe they don't even make good stories.
Bob, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I am afraid you are sorely mistaken.

My stories are the Honest-to-God truth (Trust me, I couldn't make this stuff up!).

I started my GM career 29 years ago at Chevrolet Flint Assembly Plant. I worked there for almost 10 years before moving into Engineering; during that time I have launched product in every GM Truck plant in North America. I also have worked at the GM Proving Ground in Milford Michigan as well as the GM Desert Proving Ground in Mesa Arizona. I am currently managing the engineering portion of a major product line. I believe this combination places me in the unique position of being able to comment, with authority, on many aspects of GM vehicle development and production.

On the historical side, my Dad raced for Royal Pontiac from 1963 - 1969. I grew up traveling to many historic drag strips and events throughout the midwest, and hanging out with many of the gentlemen that are now considered Pontiac legends. My Dad worked for GM for 35 years, in both Manufacturing and Engineering, so I have a link to the past that many others can only imagine having.

These are not urban legends but things I have seen, heard, felt and done with my own two eyes, ears and hands.

If you disregard these, you are sincerely missing out on an opportunity to learn something.

K

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Old 03-23-2008, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kazian
They all make out the individuals who worked at GM as being stupid people who didn't know or care what went on.
Now, about GM employees being stupid, I can assure that most are not (although some seem to be!).

I think for the most part you have highly motivated and intelligent people who are saddled with the stupidity and inefficiencies of working for a major corporation....

...that, and the volume of product produced. At Flint Assembly we had two assembly lines producing 60 vehicles an hour, two shifts. If you multiply that out (60 per hour x 8 hours per day x 2 shifts x 2 lines x 280 days per year) you get 537600 vehicles per year. That's at one plant, minimum (ie, no overtime). A half a million vehicles...

Now I want you to image a huge parking lot, probably 10 acres, filled with vehicles that still require repair. These vehicles are constantly being shuttled back and forth, out back and then into the building, over to the railyard, through the shipping building, to the trucking yard, etc. The opportunities for error are tremendous...and that's before the vehicle even leaves the property.

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'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
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Old 03-23-2008, 07:18 PM
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Well, I'm afraid my description is a bit inadequate but I'm struggling with my home computer.

Let me just say this - if you are ever in the area, look me up. I would be happy to show you around.

K

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'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
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Old 03-23-2008, 07:38 PM
Bob Kazian Bob Kazian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citydesk175
I have heard many stories in 40 years with GM but one puzzler was the 67 GTO that was found on Pontiac Plant property by a fork lift driver who made a wrong turn.

The orange foundry dust covered classic was literally buried near the foundry and was not found for many years after it was driven off final assembly

thats about all I heard for sure but I think I can assume that it was hidden because it was crashed somehow and the driver hid it to save his job


Citydesk175

OK, A Fork Lift driver makes a wrong turn (apparrently nobody else ever made this wrong turn) and finds a 67 GTO buried in orange foundry dust many years after final assembly, that a driver hid (intentionally buries in foundry dust) to save his job?

I take back what I said about GM employees being stupid and will replace my comment with GM Management being stupid to not know about this, if it occurred.

Now let's see who will argue about GM Management being stupid.

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Old 03-23-2008, 09:44 PM
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Default GM Management and the foundry

Some of the brightest people I have ever met are in management at GM. BUT, GM is the number two organization for square footage under roof. The US Fed Govt is first (remember the warehouse where the Ark of the Covenant was stored in Indiana Jones)

GM does not have a warehouse like that but they have the first Pontiac stashed at the Heritage Center. I will post a picture soon.

As far as losing cars is concerned, GM employes do not shoulder this burden all by them selves. Other companies are more than willing to do it for GM. A GM security guy was involved in a many years late delivery of a freight car containing 4 1948 Cadillacs.

This might be urban legend and I have no proof or disproof of the story at this date as the only connection I had has passed on. But, it was a great story.

Before the Pontiac Foundry was demolished, that whole area was filled with niches and cubbyholes, any one of which was a hiding place. There are common processes for cases where an ordered car is not delivered... build a new one and file an insurance claim. (or self insure)

best regards
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Old 03-23-2008, 10:45 PM
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Urban legend or not I find these stories entertaining,That car may have been seen over the years by other workers who ignored it because they didnt care or want to get involved in something that they felt was none of theyre bussiness.I would like to hear more on this car.

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Old 03-24-2008, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore
Now, about GM employees being stupid, I can assure that most are not (although some seem to be!).

I think for the most part you have highly motivated and intelligent people who are saddled with the stupidity and inefficiencies of working for a major corporation....

...that, and the volume of product produced. At Flint Assembly we had two assembly lines producing 60 vehicles an hour, two shifts. If you multiply that out (60 per hour x 8 hours per day x 2 shifts x 2 lines x 280 days per year) you get 537600 vehicles per year. That's at one plant, minimum (ie, no overtime). A half a million vehicles...

Now I want you to image a huge parking lot, probably 10 acres, filled with vehicles that still require repair. These vehicles are constantly being shuttled back and forth, out back and then into the building, over to the railyard, through the shipping building, to the trucking yard, etc. The opportunities for error are tremendous...and that's before the vehicle even leaves the property.
Makes perfect sense to me. I enjoy the stories fact or fiction. Keep em coming.

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Old 03-24-2008, 01:16 AM
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I read a small blurb (in Hot Rod or Car Craft) about a white 67 GTO that was still being used a flat tire rig??

Could a car simply disappear? Sure. Why not?

Wouldn't be surprised if this was an engineering car that died, got pushed into a corner, and eventually forgotten...

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Old 03-24-2008, 01:52 AM
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Yea.We have to remember not everybody is interested in old Pontiacs.Hard to imagine,I know.But the employees there probably see the same 'stuff'sitting around for years and dont give it a second thought,things like that just become part of their everyday workplace scenery.Most of those people are there to earn a living and couldnt care less about some dirty old car sitting in a corner.So I could see a car disappearing or being forgotten.

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Old 03-24-2008, 09:28 AM
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Default 4 Cadillacs (Urban Legend)

"As far as losing cars is concerned, GM employes do not shoulder this burden all by them selves. Other companies are more than willing to do it for GM. A GM security guy was involved in a many years late delivery of a freight car containing 4 1948 Cadillacs. "

My late friend was a security guard at an SPO warehouse in Detroit. An ancient freight car was dropped off at the siding with the explanation that it had "hot-boxed" and stored at the back of the freight yard until someone read its tags and had it delivered to the remaining GM location in Detroit serviced by Grand Trunk RR.

The GM people opened it and pulled out 4 1948 Caddy's hung in racks.

You can imagine the instant ownership hassle. Eventually, it was established that GM had been paid for the lost cars and Grand Trunk owned them. 4 GT executives got the cars as part of their compensation.

Another legend or just how a complicated sales and shipping system works

regards

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Old 03-25-2008, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 242177P
I read a small blurb (in Hot Rod or Car Craft) about a white 67 GTO that was still being used a flat tire rig??

Could a car simply disappear? Sure. Why not?

Wouldn't be surprised if this was an engineering car that died, got pushed into a corner, and eventually forgotten...
I can confirm that when I worked at the Desert Proving Ground (1989 - 1994) that GTO was still in use.

K

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'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kazian
OK, A Fork Lift driver makes a wrong turn (apparrently nobody else ever made this wrong turn) and finds a 67 GTO buried in orange foundry dust many years after final assembly, that a driver hid (intentionally buries in foundry dust) to save his job?
I can't confirm or deny this 67 GTO specifically, but I am aware of a '68 AMX that was discovered in the Kenosha Wisconsin AMC plant. It had been walled off and was discovered in the late 1980s during a plant renovation. No explanation of how it got there.

It was restored by the hourly employees in the plant, and was painted by running it through the paint shop along with all of the garden variety Chrysler K cars.

It is now on display at the Chrysler Museum in Auburn Hills Michigan.

K

http://www.chryslerheritage.com/coll...php?ModelID=53

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'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
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Old 03-26-2008, 07:42 AM
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Okay, so what exactly is a flat tire rig?

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Old 03-26-2008, 07:54 AM
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Its kinda funny this story surfaced from the Pontiac plant. Ive been digging up information on my car. which isnt quite right and have come across stories of "shananagans" going on within the Pontiac plant. and this is not an isolated incident. Thats my understanding any way

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Old 03-26-2008, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore
I can confirm that when I worked at the Desert Proving Ground (1989 - 1994) that GTO was still in use.

K
I was there from '97-'04 and got to see it put to rest. It was running with a 1976 Pontiac 455 when I got there, and when that engine decided to oil down the circle track, it was replaced with an LT-1. Sometime early in this century, it went to the scrap heap.

It was in pretty rough shape after 35 years as a work vehicle; the fenders and quarter panels had been cut out for larger tires, and I don't think the most possible care was exercised with the interior when installing the roll cage.

I believe it had a somewhat NASCAR-style exhaust system, though, and you could hear it fire up throughout the building area of the DPG. You knew when it was on the track, too.

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Old 03-26-2008, 08:30 AM
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Oh, and for some of you guys who don't believe the things that are tucked away, you probably would have cried if you'd seen the dumpster-loads of new old parts that were thrown away when the warehouses were "purged" after the 2000 announcement that the DPG would be closed.

Not many Pontiac-specific parts (unless you count pallets of brand-new blue-anodized 30th Anniversary T/A wheels, GTP wheels, supercharged 3800s, etc.), but lots of brand new BBC stuff, including blocks, aluminum heads, and complete engines.

It all had to go to make room to rent out space to Indian motorcycles (and now to H-D), and to sell off 1/3 of the acreage.

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