[64speed]

I am putting the motor and trans in my Tempest Saturday. The engine and trans are together and the trans fit my tunnel perfectly BUT engine/trans assembly has to be installed as one piece because there is no way to get to the trans to bellhousing bolts in the car. I have had the assembly in the car with no front clip. I have Doug’s headers. I also have a load leveler. Can it be done?

[Murf]

Yeah, with the engine tilter you can do it. You need the car probably as high as you can get it & check out your ceiling clearance before you start. I’ve done it a couple times by my self. Another set of hands / eyes would really be helpful.

ETA, remove the distributor, fan etc.
Good luck!
Murf

[64speed]

I’m gonna have 5 people and a **** load of comforters covering everything to keep it pristine

[694.1]

I have yet to try this but have heard that the trick is to raise the back of the car.

[steve25]

You mean yo tell me that something like a ratcheting box wrench can’t get at and tighten up those bolts from the trans to the bell housing?
I have bought long cheap regular box wrenches and heated and bent them to clear stuff.

On one T bird I bent up 3 of them to different shapes to get on thru headers on a FE and tighten up stuff.

They don’t need to be good super quality steel either since that makes them easier to bend besides being cheap!
As mentioned, having the engine tilter is paramount to you getting this install done regardless of how many folks you have around to help!

[Scott65]

You'll likely need to install the headers after the engine/trans are in place. Read the instructions that come with the Doug's headers. Mine require lifting the engine with the oil filter adapter and starter removed. I suppose you could get lucky and have them in exactly the right place, but its unlikely.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by steve25

You mean yo tell me that something like a ratcheting box wrench can’t get at and tighten up those bolts from the trans to the bell housing?
I have bought long cheap regular box wrenches and heated and bent them to clear stuff.

On one T bird I bent up 3 of them to different shapes to get on thru headers on a FE and tighten up stuff.

They don’t need to be good super quality steel either since that makes them easier to bend besides being cheap!
As mentioned, having the engine tilter is paramount to you getting this install done regardless of how many folks you have around to help!

I got lucky and did not have to cut the tunnel to fit the trans but…with that comes zero clearance for getting to anything!

[steve25]

Boy that sucks !

[Formulajones]

Absolutely can be done. I prefer, and do, almost every car this way.

[Sirrotica]

It's gonna suck for you when the clutch goes out..................

I've seen people that have made access holes in the firewall, and sized them so that rubber body plugs fit the holes when not in use. A Hemi in a Dart body was the application I saw many years ago so they could swap transmissions without pulling the whole assembly, just a suggestion.

[Gary H]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Absolutely can be done. I prefer, and do, almost every car this way.

Same here! I always install the transmission and engine together in the cars. It's WAY easier than trying to mate them up in the car, especially with a manual transmission.

[padgett]

Guess am different. When I've pulled a Muncie from the bottom (4 bolts), the bellhousing bolts become accessible, Same process to change a clutch as an transmission.

Of course my funnest cars all have manual transmissions.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by Scott65

You'll likely need to install the headers after the engine/trans are in place. Read the instructions that come with the Doug's headers. Mine require lifting the engine with the oil filter adapter and starter removed. I suppose you could get lucky and have them in exactly the right place, but its unlikely.

This is my experience too. Get the engine mostly where it belongs, trans up on the crossmember then slide the headers up and get some bolts started. Drop the engine down onto the mounts and finish with the headers.

Murf

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Murf

This is my experience too. Get the engine mostly where it belongs, trans up on the crossmember then slide the headers up and get some bolts started. Drop the engine down onto the mounts and finish with the headers.

Murf

Easiest way..when one has done many engine/tranny swaps by themselves you learn the easier way to do things.

[Sirrotica]

The funny thing is the engine and transmission was designed to be split apart in chassis by the the engineers to service either the engine, or the transmission separately. No service manual shows pulling them as an assembly that I've ever seen.

Pulling the whole assembly to service one, or the other makes a whole bunch of extra work. When I was 16 YO and was just beginning working on cars we used to pull the whole assembly, but as I got around professional mechanics they would wonder why I was doing a lot of extra work to pull both components, to work on only one. Took a lot of BS from the old guys early on.

I decided to try pulling one, or the other instead and found when your working against the clock for a paycheck, you split them in chassis, and remove only the part you need to. As I said I used to pull both, but stopped doing that after working flat rate as a mechanic.

I'm not saying it's better either way, but it is faster to split them in chassis. From 50 years of experience, the only way I'd put both in together is I was working on both at the same time, (as this situation is in the OPs car, both pieces are out already), With a lift, I'd probably install each part separately, and marry them in chassis. I do realize he doesn't have a lift in his garage.

I'm still not certain why you cant access the bell housing bolts in this scenario. I really don't like standing the whole assembly at a 45 degree angle to stab the transmission into the tunnel, then tilting it as you get the engine closer to the frame. Lifting the engine out nearly level without the transmission attached, you have a lot less clearance problems.

I also think that doing more modern drivelines without nearly as much weight on the rear is easier to balance. Consider when I first started working on cars that the had cast iron hydramatics weighing half of what the engine weighed, plus they were as long as a freight train, much harder to stab in a full size car as an assembly. I also got tired of the transmission fluid lake you inevitably get if you don't have a spare yoke, which many time we didn't as teens working in our parents garages.

Man my father used to get pissed when I did that in his garage at home...LOL, and he was a mechanic to make it worse, and he never filled the floor with transmission fluid when he did it.

I also have found it easier when you're alone, to do only one piece at a time. Doing both as an assembly is possible with one person, but easier with more.

[Gary H]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

The funny thing is the engine and transmission was designed to be split apart in chassis by the the engineers to service either the engine, or the transmission separately. No service manual shows pulling them as an assembly that I've ever seen.

Pulling the whole assembly to service one, or the other makes a whole bunch of extra work. When I was 16 YO and was just beginning working on cars we used to pull the whole assembly, but as I got around professional mechanics they would wonder why I was doing a lot of extra work to pull both components, to work on only one. Took a lot of BS from the old guys early on.

I decided to try pulling one, or the other instead and found when your working against the clock for a paycheck, you split them in chassis, and remove only the part you need to. As I said I used to pull both, but stopped doing that after working flat rate as a mechanic.

I'm not saying it's better either way, but it is faster to split them in chassis. From 50 years of experience, the only way I'd put both in together is I was working on both at the same time, (as this situation is in the OPs car, both pieces are out already), With a lift, I'd probably install each part separately, and marry them in chassis. I do realize he doesn't have a lift in his garage.

I'm still not certain why you cant access the bell housing bolts in this scenario. I really don't like standing the whole assembly at a 45 degree angle to stab the transmission into the tunnel, then tilting it as you get the engine closer to the frame. Lifting the engine out nearly level without the transmission attached, you have a lot less clearance problems.

I also think that doing more modern drivelines without nearly as much weight on the rear is easier to balance. Consider when I first started working on cars that the had cast iron hydramatics weighing half of what the engine weighed, plus they were as long as a freight train, much harder to stab in a full size car as an assembly. I also got tired of the transmission fluid lake you inevitably get if you don't have a spare yoke, which many time we didn't as teens working in our parents garages.

Man my father used to get pissed when I did that in his garage at home...LOL, and he was a mechanic to make it worse, and he never filled the floor with transmission fluid when he did it.

I also have found it easier when you're alone, to do only one piece at a time. Doing both as an assembly is possible with one person, but easier with more.

Just to be clear, the original poster asked if you can put the engine and trans in at the same time. I, and others were responding to that.

[Sirrotica]

I read all the posts, I do know the situation, and put that in my post.

Given the car is just restored, the possibility to damage it, by putting both assemblies in as one seems like the last choice I'd do, having done it once myself in 1974.

I also had a 69 GTO that was freshly painted. If you look at my signature pics it's the black flamed 69 GTO behind the 69 GP race car. I needed to pull the engine and transmission out of for work on both units, it also had headers. I was a nervous wreck reinstalling them as one unit, so I wouldn't do it again. Been there done that, not doing it again. I was younger (20) and less experienced in 1974 when I did mine, but it did get done, and the car was unscathed.

Yes it's possible, it also is the easiest to cause damage to a very nicely restored car too. I hope the OP gets it in unscathed. I'm sure there will be some that disagree, and that's fine, I have my experience's and they have theirs's. Everyone has the freedom to choose their operations on their car.

So yes it's possible, I did it, and so have others on here. Having done it once on a nice car, I wouldn't advise doing it. The engineers made the units separate and show in service manuals how they intended them to be serviced as separate units, that was the point of the post. Sorry if you don't agree with the points, even though I believe they are valid.

And the final thing is, I put in my at the end of my post, although you may deem it worthless, and that's fine with me.

[KEN CROCIE]

Before the invention of engine tilters, we used to have a helper stand on the trans to get the proper tilt This was in my "64.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE

Before the invention of engine tilters, we used to have a helper stand on the trans to get the proper tilt This was in my "64.

i

I was that guy when I was growing up. Fattest guy around. 😁
Man those tiller’s were a great invention!

I can’t believe all the shows on TV where they use a damn old forklift on a $250k car. To use one of their favorite terms “ that’s sketchy “

Murf

[64speed]

I actually do have a two post lift just for the record LOL