[Ccass]

Originally Posted by Steve Barcak

Most of the later model Pontiacs will end up in the scrap yard as they deserve to. If PY feels there is a repop market knock yourself out and try. Very few late Pontiacs will ever have collective value and ever fewer are loyal to the brand. Hey, it is your deal, do what you want but, I think it is not the wisest direction to go. Not like you would listen to me anyway....

Where I would agree with the idea of the original poster, I am not ticked off about it. This board is big but, not the only one to go to. If people do not like changes, they will simply go elsewhere in addition to coming here.

Time will tell both of us if there is a real, valid 80s, 90s, and 00s Pontiac repop market. I do wish you well but, do not feel it is a safe bet.

After all the posts I've made, you still don't get it. As an enthusiast, I commend that you are fighting the fight for what you think represents a real Pontiac. However, keep thinking that way and In 10 years, let's see how many traditional Pontiac Powered race cars you get to your Pontiac race day....if you are still having it.

[Ccass]

As I have stated in multiple topics; This new format is temporary. It's suppose to be OUR (PY Forums members) way to welcome ALL Pontiacs. It's our way of 'Bringing the Pontiac World together'. And every time a topic like this gets started, it hinders our efforts to make ALL Pontiac owners welcome.

We defend Pontiac when the words Ford, Chevy or Mopar come up. We get really frustrated when a race track won't support a Pontiac day and instead requires BOP classes or has a frickin motorcycle class on a 'Pontiac' day because there isn't enough Pontiacs. But then when something is done to help give us strength in numbers, we turn on our own community and treat the cars and their owners like outcasts.

Please tell me this is only a small minority of members that feel this way. If it's more than a small minority, please tell me that at least some of those that felt that way are starting to realize it's a selfish and a hobby destructive attitude.

[Nick623]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

Seriously though, in ten years or so, we'll have ten estate sales for every buyer. I personally don't want to see that happen to our cars. I'd like to believe that we'll have a new generation take over when we can longer do it. We've put a bunch of time, love and money in this old iron and I'd really hate to see this stuff rot from disinterest.

So what happens in ten years when the old guys are getting rid of their old Pontiacs but they've found out their cars doesn't worth as much as they once did. What are you old guys gonna do then? Are you gonna refuse to take a loss and give your old Pontiacs to your younger family members that does not give a damn about your old Pontiac or are you suck your losses up and sell it at market price to the younger guys like me?

That's what the younger guys like me worry about. I want your old Pontiacs when it's time to let them go and I hope it won't fall into the hands of your 18 year old grandson who prefers ricers over those Pontiac iron.

[Alvin]

3 things:

For me once someone posted the ease of using the blue button option to collapse the added content the additional sections I prefer to ignore became a moot point.

Also realize that sometimes find new areas in those previously "pesky" sections that I may learn or relearn something Pontiac related.

I noticed the added content really didn't cost anymore $ to use this free PY forum.

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by Alvin

3 things:

For me once someone posted the ease of using the blue button option to collapse the added content the additional sections I prefer to ignore became a moot point.

Also realize that sometimes find new areas in those previously "pesky" sections that I may learn or relearn something Pontiac related.

I noticed the added content really didn't cost anymore $ to use this free PY forum.

We don't always see eye to eye Al, but that was well put!

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by Ccass

As I have stated in multiple topics; This new format is temporary. It's suppose to be OUR (PY Forums members) way to welcome ALL Pontiacs. It's our way of 'Bringing the Pontiac World together'. And every time a topic like this gets started, it hinders our efforts to make ALL Pontiac owners welcome.

We defend Pontiac when the words Ford, Chevy or Mopar come up. We get really frustrated when a race track won't support a Pontiac day and instead requires BOP classes or has a frickin motorcycle class on a 'Pontiac' day because there isn't enough Pontiacs. But then when something is done to help give us strength in numbers, we turn on our own community and treat the cars and their owners like outcasts.

Please tell me this is only a small minority of members that feel this way. If it's more than a small minority, please tell me that at least some of those that felt that way are starting to realize it's a selfish and a hobby destructive attitude.

True, we lost this SoCal track for street legal events several years ago, but while we had it, we had quite a turn out of newer Pontiacs.



We had so many G8s there that one could think we had our own reserved parking.



We were collectively the overachievers given our rated HP versus the way we ran (reminds us of the old days with Pontiac) and struck fear into the hearts of many SRT8s. We kept the Pontiac name out there and the G8s got a lot of respect along with the number of late model 2004 - 06 GTOs who showed up at Fontana. In sheer numbers we were probably the dominate brand on street legal days. Pretty good for a dead brand. What we did though is keep the Pontiac flame burning a little longer.

We were so competitive with each other that I generally took my G8, but every once in a while I'd take one of the old cars and you would have thought I just drove in from Venus or something. These guys and one girl were all less than half my age and knew nothing of this old iron. They were all interested once exposed to this. Then I would start to get questions regarding how much and how available .... so little by little they'd start coming around.

We have to somehow bridge this gap between the old and the new to keep the flame burning a little while longer. We must cultivate a new generation of interest in our cars or the hobby will die when we die.

[Stuart]

I don't think I've ever seen that many G8s, let alone all in one place at the same time. I thought hard about buying one, I wish I had now.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I don't think I've ever seen that many G8s, let alone all in one place at the same time. I thought hard about buying one, I wish I had now.

The rest were in staging. We could get 20-30 out there on a decent day, which is pretty good turnout given how far Fontana is from everything. I liked this shot because we had all the available colors in this one. It was great racing with a few 1000ths of a second between us for the average of the day. In fact I didn't know anyone with a G8 GT who didn't race it. Just like the early - mid 60s for Pontiac. And more importantly, they took great fascination with the old ones.

[misterp266]

While I'm an old guy who likes older Pontiacs, I agree that all Pontiacs are Pontiacs. When a 535" race motor has no Pontiac parts in it, it's no more a Pontiac motor that whatever is in a G8. Let's welcome everyone!

That being said how about listing the forums by popularity?

ForumPostsPontiac - Street 438347Pontiac - Race 432139THE LOBBY 23598770-73 Firebird &... 10288266-67 GTO Tempest... 94573The Body Shop TECH 8876770-72 GTO Tempest... 7226468-69 GTO Tempest... 7155862-66 Big Pontiac... 6958369-71 Judges only... 67144

I only look at a few different ones but to please the majority, let the nimbers set the order. Just a thought...Rob

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by misterp266

That being said how about listing the forums by popularity?

ForumPostsPontiac - Street 438347Pontiac - Race 432139THE LOBBY 23598770-73 Firebird &... 10288266-67 GTO Tempest... 94573The Body Shop TECH 8876770-72 GTO Tempest... 7226468-69 GTO Tempest... 7155862-66 Big Pontiac... 6958369-71 Judges only... 67144

I only look at a few different ones but to please the majority, let the nimbers set the order. Just a thought...Rob

I agree 100%. Something along these lines will return just as soon as we make the LM Pontiac owners feel welcome. Once that happens, we'll basically list everything by era and popularity.

[PonchoV8]

I have an old saying: You can't do enough for some people.

No matter how much you do, it's never enough.

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by 61 389-348

The rest were in staging. We could get 20-30 out there on a decent day, which is pretty good turnout given how far Fontana is from everything. I liked this shot because we had all the available colors in this one. It was great racing with a few 1000ths of a second between us for the average of the day. In fact I didn't know anyone with a G8 GT who didn't race it. Just like the early - mid 60s for Pontiac. And more importantly, they took great fascination with the old ones.

Off topic a bit, but it looks like SoCal is going to get their only 1/4 track back

http://www.dailybulletin.com/sports/...strip-for-2014

[goatman65]

The 'newer' Pontiac forums don't bother me. It's just that 'they' now have the top billing over the 'older' Pontiac forums. Kinda makes us old car guys feel like we are now second-rate. We are no longer important enough to have our forums listed first.I know it is only temporary and it really isn't that big of a deal. Just saying how I felt the first time I saw the new format.
As far as I know the PY forums is the largest Pontiac forum on the web,but PY needs to keep in mind who made it what it is, us 'old car' guys.

If not for us 'old car' guys PY and this forum might not even exist.

[PonchoV8]

I'm sure that's why Chris is saying it's temporary; because he values the older members here. I know for fact that he values that. When the seed is planted with late modelers (which are also part of our dead auto brand), it'll look 'normal' again.

[Wareagle]

Originally Posted by misterp266

While I'm an old guy who likes older Pontiacs, I agree that all Pontiacs are Pontiacs. When a 535" race motor has no Pontiac parts in it, it's no more a Pontiac motor that whatever is in a G8. Let's welcome everyone!
Huh - that 535 is based on the Pontiac V8 287-455 engine design

That being said how about listing the forums by popularity?

ForumPostsPontiac - Street 438347Pontiac - Race 432139THE LOBBY 23598770-73 Firebird &... 10288266-67 GTO Tempest... 94573The Body Shop TECH 8876770-72 GTO Tempest... 7226468-69 GTO Tempest... 7155862-66 Big Pontiac... 6958369-71 Judges only... 67144

I only look at a few different ones but to please the majority, let the nimbers set the order. Just a thought...Rob

Huh - that 535 is based on the Pontiac V8 287-455 Engine design whether its a IA II or MR-1 Block - Heres a 535 ci. Pontiac V8 IA II Block - 700 pump gas hp .

[60man]

Originally Posted by Alvin

3 things:

For me once someone posted the ease of using the blue button option to collapse the added content the additional sections I prefer to ignore became a moot point.

Also realize that sometimes find new areas in those previously "pesky" sections that I may learn or relearn something Pontiac related.

I noticed the added content really didn't cost anymore $ to use this free PY forum.

I'm with you. All is well.

[misterp266]

Originally Posted by Wareagle

Huh - that 535 is based on the Pontiac V8 287-455 Engine design whether its a IA II or MR-1 Block - Heres a 535 ci. Pontiac V8 IA II Block - 700 pump gas hp .

You miss my point. The engine in a G8 was put there by Pontiac. That 535 based on a Pontiac is also very cool and yes I'd love to have one too.
My point is that we need to welcome all Pontiac owners and not say that the G8 owner is less important than the 535 owner because his motor isn't traditional Pontiac motor based.

The picture of all those G8's at the track is impressive. New blood is good. When my generation of Pontiac guys is gone, someone needs to have a interest in our stuff. Get the newbies involved here and they may want to own an older Pontiac as well as a modern one. Tell them they don't count and they will be gone.

JMHO, Rob...

[Wareagle]

Originally Posted by misterp266

You miss my point. The engine in a G8 was put there by Pontiac. That 535 based on a Pontiac is also very cool and yes I'd love to have one too.
My point is that we need to welcome all Pontiac owners and not say that the G8 owner is less important than the 535 owner because his motor isn't traditional Pontiac motor based.

The picture of all those G8's at the track is impressive. New blood is good. When my generation of Pontiac guys is gone, someone needs to have a interest in our stuff. Get the newbies involved here and they may want to own an older Pontiac as well as a modern one. Tell them they don't count and they will be gone.

JMHO, Rob...

Don't get me wrong- all is Welcome - I like the newer Pontiacs G8's etc. but there's also a lot of younger guys racing and collecting traditional powered Pontiacs - just click on the Race and Street section here on PY's - myself I just want to see the Traditional powered Pontiac be the best it can - this one is powered by a 428 Pontiac and has WON 4 World NHRA Super Stock Championships with a 77-79 6X 400 based Pontiac under the hood

[61 389-348]

Originally Posted by misterp266

You miss my point. The engine in a G8 was put there by Pontiac. That 535 based on a Pontiac is also very cool and yes I'd love to have one too.
My point is that we need to welcome all Pontiac owners and not say that the G8 owner is less important than the 535 owner because his motor isn't traditional Pontiac motor based.

The picture of all those G8's at the track is impressive. New blood is good. When my generation of Pontiac guys is gone, someone needs to have a interest in our stuff. Get the newbies involved here and they may want to own an older Pontiac as well as a modern one. Tell them they don't count and they will be gone.

JMHO, Rob...

And this wasn't a Pontiac event ... just our monthly or so NHRA Street Legal event. The enthusian was the same and the was racing great. The only difference is that they are on average, half our age.

The G8 and 04 -06 GTO command a bunch of respect for the brand. Given that it's Southern Cal, the track is at least half ricers. However, when I'd sit out a run to hang around up in the stands to watch and takes some pics, I'd frequently hear some rice kid say to another when two cars were staging .... maybe a SRT Charger versus a G8 that the Mopar is gonna get beat because there's a Pontiac up on the line.

These Asian kids wouldn't have known a Pontiac from a Tatra had it not been for the G8. And most of them certainly didn't know that the car was actually built in Australia.

I think this is great for the brand. And then when I'd take one of the old ones to the track, I got as much or more attention as anyone else.

I made this little vid of the day's activities after G8 owner Dan gave the G8 to his wife Tami and Dan raced his new manual SRT8 Challenger and of course they raced each other. The reason for the chef's outfits in a couple of places in the video is that whomever lost, Dan or Tami, got to barbeque for the rest of us. Well, Tami, who had never raced before just pounded her husband in spite of the 60+ HP deficit and she did this everytime.

http://youtu.be/dbgQpzUSZlI

Click 1080p as it's in HD ... just like the G8s

[ho428]

One thing I'd like to see more of is younger guys building Pontiac engines, not just using the Pontiac styling and swapping in modern drivetrains.
Dollar for dollar is if you're buying a "performance built" LS crate engine you're going to be north on 10K, especially when you factor in all the stuff needed for the swap, using a factory block you can get a well built Pontiac for about the same amount or less.

If you build it yourself you can use an aftermarket block and go all out.
MR1 block $3000
Aluminum roller heads $2800
Forged 467 Stroker Kit $2200
Roller cam, lifters, rockers, PR, etc. $1200
NW intake $350

Granted the other little things and machine work will add up, but you're now talking about a Pontiac 467 that will put out some serious horsepower, with Tq numbers the LS probably can't match.

If you're not going original appearance, seeing that under the hood of a Vintage Pontiac vs an LS is what I want to see.