#41  
Old 09-20-2012, 02:46 PM
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goatcheese goatcheese is offline
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I have the same exact symptoms going on. I also used an IR themometer with the same results. I have an aluminum radiator with electric fans, checked the water pump clearances, etc.
I bought a new water pump (PWP381) from cardone that's supposed to have an improved impeller. I was gonna install it tonight but, looks like I better check my timing instead. What's funny about mine is it ran cool for the first 75 miles or so then overheated. It now will overheat while idling or driving only a mile or so. The distributor is tight so I know it didn't move. I will check it this evening.

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1967 GTO (project, surprise gift for dad)
-Lexus pearl white paint
-2005 gto brakes, irs independent rear suspension axle,
-and wheels.
-2006 gto front and rear seats

1972 Vega
-waiting for turbo v8

1976 Nova
-owned since high school, it's been sleeping for over 15 years!
  #42  
Old 09-20-2012, 05:42 PM
jray1 jray1 is offline
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Originally Posted by goatcheese View Post
I have the same exact symptoms going on. I also used an IR themometer with the same results. I have an aluminum radiator with electric fans, checked the water pump clearances, etc.
I bought a new water pump (PWP381) from cardone that's supposed to have an improved impeller. I was gonna install it tonight but, looks like I better check my timing instead. What's funny about mine is it ran cool for the first 75 miles or so then overheated. It now will overheat while idling or driving only a mile or so. The distributor is tight so I know it didn't move. I will check it this evening.
The problem with mines so far seemed to be the vacuum advance. The initial timing was where it needed to be but the vacuum pulled in way to much timing way to fast. I should max out at 36 degrees of timing but I was hitting 45-46 possibly more at higher rpms. Without vacuum it will max at 36 and the mechanical curve seems great for this motor so far. Also I should mention this is an HEI distributor not the points style.

  #43  
Old 09-20-2012, 06:35 PM
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I have an HEI also. Even at idle the vac advance is pulling too much? My car will overheat just idling. I thought I set my initial timing at 12 degrees but, never check what the advance was doing. I wonder if the vac advances we have are faulty? Going out to look at mine now.

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1967 GTO (project, surprise gift for dad)
-Lexus pearl white paint
-2005 gto brakes, irs independent rear suspension axle,
-and wheels.
-2006 gto front and rear seats

1972 Vega
-waiting for turbo v8

1976 Nova
-owned since high school, it's been sleeping for over 15 years!
  #44  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:01 PM
jray1 jray1 is offline
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I truely think the hei With the vacuum hooked up just advances way to fast for the motor. Try unhooking the vacuum lines and plugging the vacuum ports then set your timing around 14-16 degrees advanced. Rev it to around 2500-3000 rpms and you should be at max advance. Shouldn't go past 36 degrees advance.

  #45  
Old 09-23-2012, 12:00 AM
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Well.... I thought I had the vac advance problem. I had about 8 degrees initial and when plugging vac advance in it looked like it went to over 40 degrees advanced at idle! I have an adjustable vac advance canister so I backed it all the way out. I adjusted my initial to about 12-13 and adjusted the vac advance to add another 12 or so. After that I adjusted my air/fuel and idle on my carb. Done all this in 5-10 minutes while keeping an eye on my temp. It still crept up to 230 in that short period of time . I borrowed a hydrocarbon tested from a friend tonight to test my coolant. Afraid I have the head gasket issue. Makes sense because my setup ran for hours three or 4 times but, since I drove it for an hour and it got hot it overheats within 5-10 minutes idling. Even faster while driving...

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1967 GTO (project, surprise gift for dad)
-Lexus pearl white paint
-2005 gto brakes, irs independent rear suspension axle,
-and wheels.
-2006 gto front and rear seats

1972 Vega
-waiting for turbo v8

1976 Nova
-owned since high school, it's been sleeping for over 15 years!
  #46  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:13 AM
rexs73gto rexs73gto is offline
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Sorry to hear , I hope though now you can get it fixed & have no more problems once it gets fixed. None of us ever like to hear of any of us having any problems with our toys but at least now it has a possible end. If there is any thing we can help with in the future drop a line & some one here will be glad to help.

  #47  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:36 AM
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Well.... I thought I had the vac advance problem. I had about 8 degrees initial and when plugging vac advance in it looked like it went to over 40 degrees advanced at idle! I have an adjustable vac advance canister so I backed it all the way out. I adjusted my initial to about 12-13 and adjusted the vac advance to add another 12 or so. After that I adjusted my air/fuel and idle on my carb. Done all this in 5-10 minutes while keeping an eye on my temp. It still crept up to 230 in that short period of time . I borrowed a hydrocarbon tested from a friend tonight to test my coolant. Afraid I have the head gasket issue. Makes sense because my setup ran for hours three or 4 times but, since I drove it for an hour and it got hot it overheats within 5-10 minutes idling. Even faster while driving...
Sorry to hear that, after getting some more time to check mine yesterday I am not totally out of the woods either. Mine is running way cooler now it takes a long time for the temp to get up but it wants to go to 200-205 and stay there. Since I have a 160 thermostat I am wondering now if there is a flow issue as well.

  #48  
Old 09-23-2012, 12:04 PM
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Sorry to hear that, after getting some more time to check mine yesterday I am not totally out of the woods either. Mine is running way cooler now it takes a long time for the temp to get up but it wants to go to 200-205 and stay there. Since I have a 160 thermostat I am wondering now if there is a flow issue as well.
I suspect you have the same deal as a bunch of guys, there are a few different issues contributing to your higher than desired temps. Notice I said higher than desired and not over heating. Some guys find a few degrees here and there by going through everything that can cause higher temps. They find dragging brakes, timing and fuel mixture issues, a few thousandths off on water pump plate clearance, radiator is dirty, plugged or wrong model for the application, bad fan clutch, wrong clutch or fan, fan incorrect distance from radiator, no shroud, wrong or incorrect fitting of shroud, or wrong amount of fan in and out of shroud................... I'm tired of typing!

Karl


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Old 09-23-2012, 02:16 PM
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I have a 64 gto with a 68 400 in it. New build with a 30 over on the block. I added a Big aluminum radiator big electric puller fan. I have worked the divider plates on the water pump(cast impeller) to very tight tolerences along with directing the rear head outlet (to heater core) back to the passenger side water Crossover and my temp sender is in the driver side. I can't get this car to cool at all. I have flow thru the radiator and I have verified temps with a laser thermometer. The radiator is cool (130-160) and the motor keeps climbing till I hit about 250 and I shut it down. Please tell me there is something I am missing. Also the timing is perfect. Just installed a Holley 750 to make sure I had adequate fuel.
jray,

Splain this to me again? By "crossover" do you mean the timing cover return fitting? The stock way my '72 is set up is as follows; the passenger side head has a fitting at the rear that feeds the heater core, the heater core then sends the water to the return fitting on the timing cover. The driver side head has no external water flow. To bypass the heater core I run a heater hose from the rear of the passenger side head to the timing cover return.

Karl


  #50  
Old 09-23-2012, 05:38 PM
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jray,

Splain this to me again? By "crossover" do you mean the timing cover return fitting? The stock way my '72 is set up is as follows; the passenger side head has a fitting at the rear that feeds the heater core, the heater core then sends the water to the return fitting on the timing cover. The driver side head has no external water flow. To bypass the heater core I run a heater hose from the rear of the passenger side head to the timing cover return.

Karl

Right now I have the hose out the back passenger head that goes to the heater core t'd So it goes from the back of the head to the passenger side of the intake. With a vintage air system there is an electric valve that doesn't open to let the hot water thru to the heater core until u turn it on heat. I was afraid the lack of flow here could have been part of my problem.

  #51  
Old 09-23-2012, 09:39 PM
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I suspect you have the same deal as a bunch of guys, there are a few different issues contributing to your higher than desired temps. Notice I said higher than desired and not over heating. Some guys find a few degrees here and there by going through everything that can cause higher temps. They find dragging brakes, timing and fuel mixture issues, a few thousandths off on water pump plate clearance, radiator is dirty, plugged or wrong model for the application, bad fan clutch, wrong clutch or fan, fan incorrect distance from radiator, no shroud, wrong or incorrect fitting of shroud, or wrong amount of fan in and out of shroud................... I'm tired of typing!

Karl

I guess being a custom set up makes it even harder to diagnose the problems. I am running an electric puller fan with a custom shroud (sealed to the core) the radiator seems to be doing its job, as the coolant drops temp by at least 20 degrees. Now if I can just get it to run down the road at 180-190 degrees I will be happy. Getting closer everyday.

  #52  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:27 PM
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Well, I ran the numbers on my engine and I have a 68 firebird 350 instead of a 389 like I was told when buying it. It does have hooker headers, edelbrock intake/carb, and runs very torquey so it seems to have been built a little more than stock. Guess it's worth keeping and giving to my dad. If a fresh 455 was easy to find at a good price I might would through it in instead.

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1967 GTO (project, surprise gift for dad)
-Lexus pearl white paint
-2005 gto brakes, irs independent rear suspension axle,
-and wheels.
-2006 gto front and rear seats

1972 Vega
-waiting for turbo v8

1976 Nova
-owned since high school, it's been sleeping for over 15 years!
  #53  
Old 09-24-2012, 07:18 AM
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Well, I ran the numbers on my engine and I have a 68 firebird 350 instead of a 389 like I was told when buying it. It does have hooker headers, edelbrock intake/carb, and runs very torquey so it seems to have been built a little more than stock. Guess it's worth keeping and giving to my dad. If a fresh 455 was easy to find at a good price I might would through it in instead.

Now the plot thickens. If it IS a 350 and not a 389, then you very well may have a head gasket issue. 326/350 head gaskets are becoming harder to find. Most are NOS and older style or extremely expensive Corteco's. Made in Germany.
The 350 will have issues if they used the Fel Pro 8518. It is too big for the bores and it creates a lip at the top of the combustion chamber. If you find out that this is the case you may have to change them...

Here is a post with the pictures..

HTH,
Dave

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...5&postcount=43

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  #54  
Old 09-24-2012, 10:40 AM
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Thanks for the info Dave! The search is on..

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1967 GTO (project, surprise gift for dad)
-Lexus pearl white paint
-2005 gto brakes, irs independent rear suspension axle,
-and wheels.
-2006 gto front and rear seats

1972 Vega
-waiting for turbo v8

1976 Nova
-owned since high school, it's been sleeping for over 15 years!
  #55  
Old 09-24-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jray1 View Post
Right now I have the hose out the back passenger head that goes to the heater core t'd So it goes from the back of the head to the passenger side of the intake. With a vintage air system there is an electric valve that doesn't open to let the hot water thru to the heater core until u turn it on heat. I was afraid the lack of flow here could have been part of my problem.
Jray,

I apologize for being a bit thick headed here but I still don't get this part...... Are you actually plumbing the heater feed into the "intake" as in intake manifold water crossover? Or do you mean the flow goes into the "intake" on the timing cover/pump housing? May be that a picture would help me here... I have a '72 model so it may be the difference in the design of the timing cover/pump housing for the '68 is hurting my small brain
I don't know for sure that routing this one way or the other is affecting the temps but every little hindrance to proper cooling system function will add up.....
Anyway, if you could post a picture of this I would appreciate it. I'm constantly trying to learn here.

Karl


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Old 09-24-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jray1 View Post
Right now I have the hose out the back passenger head that goes to the heater core t'd So it goes from the back of the head to the passenger side of the intake. With a vintage air system there is an electric valve that doesn't open to let the hot water thru to the heater core until u turn it on heat. I was afraid the lack of flow here could have been part of my problem.

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1990 Chevy Suburban R2500 Daily Driver
1986 Volvo DL245 Wagon.. Project car!!!
The Burb Files
  #57  
Old 09-24-2012, 04:32 PM
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After extensive research and calls today it looks like my options are custom copper gaskets which are over $200/pair or SCE Gaskets carry a part #19472 with a bore diameter of 4.125" compared to the Felpro 8518PT 4.30" which autoparts try to sell you for the 350-455 engines. The SCE's are about $46 each and they claim they're far better than the Felpro's. What do you guys think? The std bore for the pontiac 350 is about 3.8".

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1967 GTO (project, surprise gift for dad)
-Lexus pearl white paint
-2005 gto brakes, irs independent rear suspension axle,
-and wheels.
-2006 gto front and rear seats

1972 Vega
-waiting for turbo v8

1976 Nova
-owned since high school, it's been sleeping for over 15 years!
  #58  
Old 09-24-2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by goatcheese View Post
After extensive research and calls today it looks like my options are custom copper gaskets which are over $200/pair or SCE Gaskets carry a part #19472 with a bore diameter of 4.125" compared to the Felpro 8518PT 4.30" which autoparts try to sell you for the 350-455 engines. The SCE's are about $46 each and they claim they're far better than the Felpro's. What do you guys think? The std bore for the pontiac 350 is about 3.8".
Ken (Ace) Brewer at Pacific Performance Racing is the guy to speak to regarding 350 Pontiac builds. He used the Victor Reinz (PN 3401VC) on his build in High Performance Pontiac Magazine "Small-Bore Pontiac Engine Build - Revenge Of The 350"

Read more: http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...#ixzz27QcxG9Tt

I found it online at Autozone for $20.99ea.

Karl


  #59  
Old 09-24-2012, 06:25 PM
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Thanks Karl! Is the track still open in Eunice? I used to race my Nova there when I was in High School. I'm from Lake Charles originally.
Brent

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1967 GTO (project, surprise gift for dad)
-Lexus pearl white paint
-2005 gto brakes, irs independent rear suspension axle,
-and wheels.
-2006 gto front and rear seats

1972 Vega
-waiting for turbo v8

1976 Nova
-owned since high school, it's been sleeping for over 15 years!
  #60  
Old 09-24-2012, 06:30 PM
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Thanks Karl! Is the track still open in Eunice? I used to race my Nova there when I was in High School. I'm from Lake Charles originally.
Brent
No It is not... I have not been out there but I looked at it on Google Earth and it still seems to be in tact, I have no idea what shape it's in..... Damn shame really....

Karl


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