[importsmasher]

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but the search function doesn't work on my phone.

I saw a comment on Facebook about Formulas and the Ram Air 4, and it got me wondering. I figured I'd come here for a correct answer rather than rely on the BS that Facebook is full of.....

I understand that there were no 70 Formulas built with the RAIV, but I've often wondered if you could order it. My question is, was it available in the Formula, and nobody ordered it? Or was it not available at all unless you bought a Trans Am (or a GTO)?

If I had a time machine, I think that's a car I'd love to go back and order!

Thanks,
Importsmasher

[Norwood]

Crazy as it seems it was available, no one was smart enough to order it. Can you imagine what that would be worth in today’s crazy market. Probably almost as much as a Bandit. ��

[Formulabruce]

No advertising, and the killing of the RA-SD , probably lowered interest and information. Note most RA IV cars are later in the model year. Word of mouth was not as fast as the internet.

[se428bandit]

A what if, what if you could order one. How would it be optioned?
I would ordered a auto, golden rod yellow or carousel red, sandalwood deluxe int, gauges w tach, posi, 15 rally’s, tilt, Formula wheel,

[keith k]

There are tidbits in various documents that suggest Pontiac planned to offer the RA IV in the Formula.

I would guess that some Formulas were indeed ordered, but whatever issue led to the very limited number of RA IV cars built in the last month of '70 model production, that Pontiac prioritized the T/A orders over the Formula orders.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

We have never found anything that concludes that you Could Not have ordered a Ram4 Formula - and PMD would build it.

but
You know they would have built at least 1 of them if it was allowable.
At least one ranking employee eligible for company car at Norwood or VanNuys would have known they were in the mix and that none had been built out yet.
That would have been reason enough for someone to put in for one of them.

Best guess/consensus has mostly leaned toward that the dual pre-heat breather pan probably was not a finished product - or was overlooked. iirc
That would have caused any orders to have been canceled for lack of content.

The dual pre-heat breather pan for the TA may have been past due/late for production as well and caused the late builds for the Ram4 TA's .

{^ hypothesis formed/based opinions ^ fwiw}

Something got lost in the shuffle
The complete IV engines were on go way ahead of 70.5 F-Production

[necdb3]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

We have never found anything that concludes that you Could Not have ordered a Ram4 Formula - and PMD would build it.

but
You know they would have built at least 1 of them if it was allowable.
At least one ranking employee eligible for company car at Norwood or VanNuys would have known they were in the mix and that none had been built out yet.
That would have been reason enough for someone to put in for one of them.

Best guess/consensus has mostly leaned toward that the dual pre-heat breather pan probably was not a finished product - or was overlooked. iirc
That would have caused any orders to have been canceled for lack of content.

The dual pre-heat breather pan for the TA may have been past due/late for production as well and caused the late builds for the Ram4 TA's .

{^ hypothesis formed/based opinions ^ fwiw}

Something got lost in the shuffle
The complete IV engines were on go way ahead of 70.5 F-Production

I always thought that maybe one never got ordered as the excitement of the Trans Am with the shaker hood was something new and different for Pontiac. Being we are in the land of "what if's", if the production ran for 12 months, the likely hood would have risen for someone to order one. NTL, it would be a valuable car today.

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by keith k

There are tidbits in various documents that suggest Pontiac planned to offer the RA IV in the Formula.

I would guess that some Formulas were indeed ordered, but whatever issue led to the very limited number of RA IV cars built in the last month of '70 model production, that Pontiac prioritized the T/A orders over the Formula orders.

I’ve never heard it put in those terms, that is certainly a good possibility

[Judge273]

The RAIV TA wasn’t a high demand car. Can’t imagine the Formula with a RAIV was either.

[Transamric]

In the same vein,...has anyone ever built an accurate (as much as we believe they would have been contented" a RAIV clone? (I hate using that word.) That would be a fun car to cruise in to an all Pontiac meet. Plus the cool "1 of None" personalized license plate.

[importsmasher]

Thanks for the replies! Sounds like I could walk into a Pontiac dealer in 1970 and order a Ram Air IV Formula, and at least have a chance at actually getting it. Now if I can just remember where I put my flux capacitor....

One more question: is there actually some documentation that proves none were built, or is it just presumed since none have ever surfaced?

[Formulabruce]

An odd, but probably relevant fact is late builds. Even ordered RAIV T/A were late built. If you did manage to get one (Formula) with a working air cleaner base, would be a late build.
After the GM crushing the Humbler, I think Pontiac realized that if they built stuff at end of model year, it would be too late for GM to complain about their competition. Can also cite the '73 and '74 SD. as both were built late in model year. This is only a guess, but I think it holds merit based on evidence.

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by Transamric

In the same vein,...has anyone ever built an accurate (as much as we believe they would have been contented" a RAIV clone? (I hate using that word.) That would be a fun car to cruise in to an all Pontiac meet. Plus the cool "1 of None" personalized license plate.

Jim Brown on this forum has a 70 RA 4 clone maybe he will chime in.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

has anyone ever built an accurate RAIV clone?

Before documentation became "readily" "easily" available, and before Fred S. released his research ... Hi-Perf Pontiac Magazine did a real nice multi-page article on what was supposed to have been an original 70 RamAir4 Formula.
It was Black iirc
It was accurate enough to fool the writer/editor of HPP , who in turn fooled all the readers/subscribers.

Couple years later - the bologny fell outta that sammich
oh well - it was cool as a mofo while it lasted

One more question: is there actually some documentation that proves none were built

Fred Simmonds research found 0 built
He is the one that brought us all the production totals for all Formula's & TA's from the various PMD archives he had access to at the time.

[poncho-mike]

Not long after I moved from the Charlotte NC area to the Raleigh NC area (early to mid 1990s), I attended a small swap meet at the Raleigh Fairgrounds. I drove my white SD455 4-spd T/A and left it in the parking lot. When I came out to leave, a guy came up to me asked to see my car. I didn't cover my VIN when I parked, and he saw the car and knew enough about SDs to know to look for the X in the VIN. I showed him the engine, and he knew what he was looking at. I asked what cars he had, and he said he had a 1970 Formula with a Ram IV 4-spd and some other type of Pontiac. I asked him if it was factory, and he said he put down deposit with a dealer to order him a 1970 Formula with a Ram IV 4-spd in 1970. He said the dealer held onto his deposit for several months, then told him he couldn't get the Ram IV due to production issues. He said the dealer also told him there were no more 1970 Ram IV T/As available, but he would order a 1971 T/A with the 455HO. At the time, he didn't like the idea of going to a low compression motor, so he told the dealer to find him a Ram III 4-spd Formula. He ended up buying a 1970 Ram III 4-spd Formula, then later added a Ram IV top end he bought from the dealer.

The guy was from eastern NC. I asked him if the car was for sale, he said it wasn't. I had his contact information in case I was in the area, but I never got around to following up to see what the car was.

Mike

[Rocky Rotella]

Agreeing with what’s been previously posted, according to internal Pontiac literature the L67 Ram Air IV was (preliminarily) planned as an optional engine for the Formula and Trans Am. It was, however, clearly stated that it was to be an unadvertised option. Car Distribution Bulletin 70-77 was issued in December 1969 and it formally announced the cancellation of the L67 R/A IV engine option altogether the 1970 Firebird stating that details of a new performance engine for the Firebird was forthcoming. Orders on bank containing the L67 option would be returned to the dealer.

The LS1 Ram Air Super Duty (or R/A SD) was to be Pontiac’s top performance engine for the 1970 Trans Am (and Formula). It was a bulletproof combo (4-bolt block with reinforced lifter galley and large distributor gear) with a fully-forged rotating assembly intended to raced on the dragstrip as-is, or be de-stroked to 303-ci for SCCA Trans-Am series racing, which was now allowable for the 1970 race season. Subsequently, very early 1971 engineering documents reveal that Pontiac planned to drop the L67 R/A IV entirely and make the LS1 R/A SD as the top engine option for 1971 A and F car.

The R/A SD was hampered by a few issues from the start. 1) the 1970 Firebird’s late intro made its potential production release rather late in the model year (although it was planned to continue for 1971), 2) by the time the 1970 Firebird was introduced in late-February 1970, GM had already announced the move to reduced compression ratios for 1971, which—at a possible maximum ratio of 8.5:1—would have significantly degraded its performance, and 3) a forged-steel connecting rod supply ultimately led to cancellation during the 1970 model year, which was announced internally in early May 1970. It was seemingly doomed.

I have yet to find a bulletin (whether internal engineering or Car Distribution Bulletin) that announces the availability of the LS1 R/A SD in the Firebird line. I am confident that Pontiac issued one to dealers sometime between late December 1969 and about April 1970, however. I’d love to see a copy of it. I also suspect Pontiac issued a bulletin between May 1970 and early July 1970 informing dealers that the LS1 R/A SD had been cancelled and that the L67 R/A IV would replace the LS1. Whether Pontiac cancelled orders on bank and returned the order to the dealer or Pontiac simply substituted the L67 R/A IV in place of the R/A SD without notifying dealers or buyers, we may never know. But what we do know is that it was already too late to remove the LS1 RPO from the programming lineup and that coding and/or wording appears on invoices and window stickers. I’d love to speak with a buyer that ordered a R/A IV T/A new to know what transpired.

So why were no Formula’s built with the L67 R/A IV? Well, we know that Pontiac originally intended to make it available in 1970, but any such preliminary R/A IV-powered Formula order (along with any R/A IV-powered Trans Am order) was cancelled upon the issuance of CDB 70-77 in December 1969. It was also an unadvertised option, so it wasn’t backed by any marketing and it’s unlikely there were many on bank. We also know from engineering and sales literature that Pontiac planned to offer the LS1 R/A SD in the 1970 Formula (and Trans Am). Until a bulletin announcing the LS1 R/A S/D surfaces, we don’t, however, know if Pontiac ultimately restricted the option from Formula. It’s also possible that when Pontiac decided to actually build the high-performance Trans Am late in the 1970 model year, they reinstituted the R/A IV (still coded LS1) and limited production to Trans Am only, thus cancelling any R/A SD Formula orders.

There are lots of scenarios as to WHY a R/A IV-powered Formula WASN’T built, but until a document surfaces explaining such, we can only go by what we know and that is that Pontiac PLANNED to produce the R/A IV-powered Formula, CANCELLED the L67 R/A IV option on the Firebird line entirely, ANNOUCNCED the LS1 R/A SD option for Formula and Trans Am, and then ultimately PRODUCED 88 R/A IV-powered Trans Ams.

So was the R/A IV available on the 1970 Formula? Yes and No!

Were any built? Not according to Pontiac, which shows total production of (88) units for the LS1 engine option in 1970 Final Production records. And thanks to Fred Simmonds, all (88) VINs are accounted for (and well documented) and all are Trans Ams.

[3tas4me]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

Agreeing with what’s been previously posted, according to internal Pontiac literature the L67 Ram Air IV was (preliminarily) planned as an optional engine for the Formula and Trans Am. It was, however, clearly stated that it was to be an unadvertised option. Car Distribution Bulletin 70-77 was issued in December 1969 and it formally announced the cancellation of the L67 R/A IV engine option altogether the 1970 Firebird stating that details of a new performance engine for the Firebird was forthcoming. Orders on bank containing the L67 option would be returned to the dealer.

The LS1 Ram Air Super Duty (or R/A SD) was to be Pontiac’s top performance engine for the 1970 Trans Am (and Formula). It was a bulletproof combo (4-bolt block with reinforced lifter galley and large distributor gear) with a fully-forged rotating assembly intended to raced on the dragstrip as-is, or be de-stroked to 303-ci for SCCA Trans-Am series racing, which was now allowable for the 1970 race season. Subsequently, very early 1971 engineering documents reveal that Pontiac planned to drop the L67 R/A IV entirely and make the LS1 R/A SD as the top engine option for 1971 A and F car.

The R/A SD was hampered by a few issues from the start. 1) the 1970 Firebird’s late intro made its potential production release rather late in the model year (although it was planned to continue for 1971), 2) by the time the 1970 Firebird was introduced in late-February 1970, GM had already announced the move to reduced compression ratios for 1971, which—at a possible maximum ratio of 8.5:1—would have significantly degraded its performance, and 3) a forged-steel connecting rod supply ultimately led to cancellation during the 1970 model year, which was announced internally in early May 1970. It was seemingly doomed.

I have yet to find a bulletin (whether internal engineering or Car Distribution Bulletin) that announces the availability of the LS1 R/A SD in the Firebird line. I am confident that Pontiac issued one to dealers sometime between late December 1969 and about April 1970, however. I’d love to see a copy of it. I also suspect Pontiac issued a bulletin between May 1970 and early July 1970 informing dealers that the LS1 R/A SD had been cancelled and that the L67 R/A IV would replace the LS1. Whether Pontiac cancelled orders on bank and returned the order to the dealer or Pontiac simply substituted the L67 R/A IV in place of the R/A SD without notifying dealers or buyers, we may never know. But what we do know is that it was already too late to remove the LS1 RPO from the programming lineup and that coding and/or wording appears on invoices and window stickers. I’d love to speak with a buyer that ordered a R/A IV T/A new to know what transpired.

So why were no Formula’s built with the L67 R/A IV? Well, we know that Pontiac originally intended to make it available in 1970, but any such preliminary R/A IV-powered Formula order (along with any R/A IV-powered Trans Am order) was cancelled upon the issuance of CDB 70-77 in December 1969. It was also an unadvertised option, so it wasn’t backed by any marketing and it’s unlikely there were many on bank. We also know from engineering and sales literature that Pontiac planned to offer the LS1 R/A SD in the 1970 Formula (and Trans Am). Until a bulletin announcing the LS1 R/A S/D surfaces, we don’t, however, know if Pontiac ultimately restricted the option from Formula. It’s also possible that when Pontiac decided to actually build the high-performance Trans Am late in the 1970 model year, they reinstituted the R/A IV (still coded LS1) and limited production to Trans Am only, thus cancelling any R/A SD Formula orders.

There are lots of scenarios as to WHY a R/A IV-powered Formula WASN’T built, but until a document surfaces explaining such, we can only go by what we know and that is that Pontiac PLANNED to produce the R/A IV-powered Formula, CANCELLED the L67 R/A IV option on the Firebird line entirely, ANNOUCNCED the LS1 R/A SD option for Formula and Trans Am, and then ultimately PRODUCED 88 R/A IV-powered Trans Ams.

So was the R/A IV available on the 1970 Formula? Yes and No!

Were any built? Not according to Pontiac, which shows total production of (88) units for the LS1 engine option in 1970 Final Production records. And thanks to Fred Simmonds, all (88) VINs are accounted for (and well documented) and all are Trans Ams.

Rocky,

Is there any documentation showing how many of the 88 RA IV T/A's remain in existance?

[importsmasher]

I am fascinated by the knowledge you guys have gathered on these cars. Thanks for all the responses (and any future responses)! I would never have gotten this information so quickly and thoroughly anywhere but on the PY Forums!

Importsmasher

[poncho-mike]

I wish I had the name of the guy who tried to order the Ram IV Formula. He might have some original correspondence from Pontiac.

I'm going from memory on a conversation I had 25 year ago, but pretty much everything Rocky states sounds reasonable. I talked to this guy for quite a while. He said the 1970 Firebirds were ahead of their time, and were pretty radical looking. I remember asking the guy why he wanted a Formula, when the T/A looked better with the stripes. He said he thought the Formula with the fiberglass Formula hood would be much lighter and was cheaper. He also said he was shocked when the Formula hood turned out to be heavier than the stock T/A hood. He said if he known the hood was so heavy, he would have probably ordered a Ram IV T/A.

So according to this guy, the dealer checked with the factory and was told they could build him a Ram IV Formula, then late in the 1970 production year they backed out. I'm not clear if Pontiac sent him the car he ordered but with a Ram III, or if he bought another Ram III off a lot somewhere.

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by 3tas4me

Rocky,

Is there any documentation showing how many of the 88 RA IV T/A's remain in existance?

My notebook