[ventura7211]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Yes they are 1.75" offset and IIRC they are from speedtech.

The offset of your shackles is why you hit the spring first.

The comp engineering shackles move the rear of the springs in 4 inches, makes room for a 315. If it were me and allowed, I would just relocate the front of the spring to inside the frame rail using a mount from a crossmember. Then get the leaf straight back and build a crossmember there to attach.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by ventura7211

The offset of your shackles is why you hit the spring first.

The comp engineering shackles move the rear of the springs in 4 inches, makes room for a 315. If it were me and allowed, I would just relocate the front of the spring to inside the frame rail using a mount from a crossmember. Then get the leaf straight back and build a crossmember there to attach.

agreed, like you mention, there is no way a 4" rear offset is going to be able to use the stock front location. I was not interest in fabing up a front mount.

I think the best way to approach these cars is a ladder bar deal. By the time you buy the offset hangers, move the spring perches, new springs,caltracs, etc., I bet you could do a ladderbar coil over for similar money.

[BILTIT]

Hmm, DSE states a 315 can fit with their 1.75 offset shackle.

''DSE's exclusive billet aluminum offset shackles are designed to relocate the rear leaf springs inboard to accommodate larger rear tires. They were computer modeled and optimized with FEA, tested, and then CNC machined. They relocate the rear leaf spring inboard to accommodate 335 tires ( with a section of 13.5" ) on a Camaro / Firebird or 315 tires ( with a section width of 12.6" ) on a Nova. The shackle offset is 1-3/4". Use along with our other mini-tub components to complete your project. Kit includes 4 offset shackles and Grade 8 fasteners. This is the ORIGINAL billet aluminum offset shackle! The DSE shackle is designed for maximum suspension travel. There are hundreds of our shackles on the road and track with proven performance. Do not accept any imitation!''

I think the section width stated is alittle narrower than most 315 tires though. MTDR 315's show a section width of 13.4''.

[ventura7211]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

agreed, like you mention, there is no way a 4" rear offset is going to be able to use the stock front location. I was not interest in fabing up a front mount.

I think the best way to approach these cars is a ladder bar deal. By the time you buy the offset hangers, move the spring perches, new springs,caltracs, etc., I bet you could do a ladderbar coil over for similar money.

I've seen them used with the stock front location, I just don't like how it looks, very "hokie".

Ladder bars is close to half the cost of "stock" suspension. Split monos and cal tracs are $640 plus the cost of offset shackles, mounting pads, and hardware. Shock cost is basically the same since you would want to use a good double adjustable shock, you would just mount the springs on them with a ladder bar.

Originally Posted by BILTIT

Hmm, DSE states a 315 can fit with their 1.75 offset shackle.

''DSE's exclusive billet aluminum offset shackles are designed to relocate the rear leaf springs inboard to accommodate larger rear tires. They were computer modeled and optimized with FEA, tested, and then CNC machined. They relocate the rear leaf spring inboard to accommodate 335 tires ( with a section of 13.5" ) on a Camaro / Firebird or 315 tires ( with a section width of 12.6" ) on a Nova. The shackle offset is 1-3/4". Use along with our other mini-tub components to complete your project. Kit includes 4 offset shackles and Grade 8 fasteners. This is the ORIGINAL billet aluminum offset shackle! The DSE shackle is designed for maximum suspension travel. There are hundreds of our shackles on the road and track with proven performance. Do not accept any imitation!''

I think the section width stated is alittle narrower than most 315 tires though. MTDR 315's show a section width of 13.4''.

It depends on the rim the 315 is mounted on, you hardly ever see that in the specs. Also the 16+ inch rim 315s have virtually no "bulge". I've had a 315 on the back of my 03 Mustang using 17 inch rims, there is no way the 15 inch 315s would fit with out rolling the fenders and beating the wells to clear the sidewall.

[BILTIT]

Hmm, well now i am back to my original dilemma. Ladder/coil setup or leaf spring setup. I had looked at this in other places and many said the ladder setup is no cheaper than the upgraded stock setup and ladders are not very friendly on the street.

[ventura7211]

Originally Posted by BILTIT

Hmm, well now i am back to my original dilemma. Ladder/coil setup or leaf spring setup. I had looked at this in other places and many said the ladder setup is no cheaper than the upgraded stock setup and ladders are not very friendly on the street.

Well, when I was adding the costs to do my rear suspension the "stock" setup I wanted was going to be roughly $1000 while the ladder bars was $400, I already had the shocks. The stock pieces I was looking at was, calvert split monos, smith race craft max tracs, afco sliders, strange spring pads, a.r.t. anti roll bar, and needed hardware.

Ladder bars vary in price from sportsman $300 kits to skinny kid $2k pieces.

This seems to be a decent looking kit for the price.
https://www.appliedracing.net/produc...ccf1c367c217e2

The ladder bars seems to be a smoother, softer ride versus the leafs to me. The only draw back would be the yearly inspection and replacement of the front heims when needed.

You can't go wrong with either set up, there isn't any real performance advantage with either in a car that is over 3000lbs IMO.

[BILTIT]

Does anybody know if a front spring mount is available to be welded in inside of the stock location?

I already have the leafs (not planning on going to split leafs) and shackles so it may be cost effective to go this route still.

[ponjohn]

Ladder bars are very street friendly. Not to mention adjustable ride height.

One could argue that an unequal length 4 link is not street friendly but an equal length is.

Ladder bar setup probably has an equal amount of fab work vs. relocation of springs, shocks. Both setups need the upper shock mount altered.

My ONLY concern with a ladder bar is if you (I) had intentions of racing; a ladder bar suspension may preclude you from X class. Probably not a real concern?

[BILTIT]

Ya, im going to have to tally up some costs. Biggest concern is the shocks, coilovers are pricier than adj. shocks but not sure how much.

I will try the shackles and set the tires in and do some measurements, if it wont work well i may try the ladders.

[ventura7211]

Originally Posted by BILTIT

Ya, im going to have to tally up some costs. Biggest concern is the shocks, coilovers are pricier than adj. shocks but not sure how much.

I will try the shackles and set the tires in and do some measurements, if it wont work well i may try the ladders.

Shock prices do vary, but they are probably the best place to spend the money IMO.

I bought a pair of Alden eagle double adjustable coil overs from a friend who quit on his project and parted it all out. http://www.aldaneagle.com/ They seem decent for the price. I know they are popular with the street rod crowd and could be why the ride in my car isn't as harsh as my friends ladder bar mustangs with Santuffs ($$$$$). I should have better data with them in a few weeks, the track here opens back this weekend! So far the best 60' has been 1.42 having to peddle due to twisting the dana 60. I have changed to a 9" ford with a different gear and 315/60 MTs, so it won't be an apples comparison, I think 1.30s on motor and 1.20s on spray is possible. FWIW I bought the Aldens when I was planning on running stock suspension, I was going to remove the coils from the shocks.

My favorite part about the shocks is how easily I could adjust them to quit allowing the car to squat. "Girls squat, race cars don't"

Originally Posted by BILTIT

Does anybody know if a front spring mount is available to be welded in inside of the stock location?

I already have the leafs (not planning on going to split leafs) and shackles so it may be cost effective to go this route still.

I do not know of any kits to relocate the front spring mount, most of the ones I've seen have been ladder bar crossmembers with tabs cut out of steel to bolt the spring too.

If you do decide to add a crossmember up front, if you go with the round tubing style you will not have to notch the floor pan to install. The 2x3 square tubes normally require notching the pan all the way across so it will fit. If you do the ladder bars, you may have to make a couple tunnels to clear the top bar, depends on the ride height and ladder bar design. The back seat can still be installed, I put mine back in.


FWIW: I do not want to come off like I'm trying to sway your decision, I'm trying to give you all the information I had and have learned to let you decide what is the best route for your car. I know when I was gathering information I ran across people who made it sound like it was voodoo and of course they had the product/service that would put the chicken bones in the correct order.

[BILTIT]

Thank you very much for the info, i am starting to sway towards ladders for the extra clearence in the future and coilovers would be nice. I agree that shocks is were the majority of the money should be spent, i need the adjustability for racing on the street.

Not sure if i can do coilovers/ladders with a stock tank?

I will do some number crunching and see what i can come up with.

[ponjohn]

I would guess the laddr bars would make it easier to run a stock tank.

The two front mounting points, the shocks will be vertically above but just behind the axle and a pnahrd bar. That should do it.

John

[ponjohn]

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Everything needed for 840.00. Shocks will need coil over spring.

Might be able to to do it cheaper if you supply raw material for crossmembers.

[ventura7211]

Originally Posted by BILTIT

Thank you very much for the info, i am starting to sway towards ladders for the extra clearence in the future and coilovers would be nice. I agree that shocks is were the majority of the money should be spent, i need the adjustability for racing on the street.

Not sure if i can do coilovers/ladders with a stock tank?

I will do some number crunching and see what i can come up with.

I'm not sure how it will work out with a stock tank. I still have the "hangers" for the tank in the car, so hopefully these pics can help you gage the amount of room they will take.



Oh the shocks will be the furthest thing back.


The diagonal link will run from one of the rear brackets to the front bracket on the opposite side.


You can see where the ones in the kit attach (where I cut it off), I didn't like that so I lengthened it with some 1 1/4" tubing to reach all the way across.

If you need any other pics of the shocks, let me know and I'll snap some this weekend before I finish painting the car.

[ponjohn]

This kit is better. In addition you will need ladder bars (250) and front crossmember (60).

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

If I were to do this, I would buy a wider rim, convert to a 9" and go to the biggest tire I can fit.....tempting.

[BILTIT]

Hmmm, alot of info to digest.

As for racing, i only bracket race so no big deal. We dont have class racing here.

Can i get away without putting the top shock mount in the trunk? Looks like a few previous pics show i can.

[BILTIT]

https://www.appliedracing.net/produc...ccf1c367c217e2

That looks like the best deal so far.

[BILTIT]

http://autoweldchassis.com/kits.ivnu

Decent priced kit there too.

[71 Ventura II]

Curious, is it possible to only run the rear offset shackles retaining the front cup mount in the factory location? I want/need to leave the front mount as-is since it matches/bolts to the subframe connector. I would be thrilled to have an additional 1"+ of room on the inside BUT I don't want to mess with relocating the dang perches now that I think about it. I should "Buck" up and install my ladder bar setup! This has been a good thread! JD

[BILTIT]

Yes, you can run the offset shackles with the factory front mount. You would need to redo the perches though.