GM believes it owns the name - "Judge" - PY Online Forums

GTO_2004 · #1 10-20-2003, 08:34 PM

DETROIT -- General Motors and an aftermarket company that specializes in producing high-performance vehicles both are laying claim to the name "Judge" for a souped-up version of the new Pontiac GTO.

GM believes it owns the name, since it created the GTO Judge, a special performance and appearance model of the GTO marketed from 1969 through 1971. The Judge name has not been used on a vehicle since then. Production of the original GTO ended in 1974.

SLP Engineering, of Troy, Mich., best known for creating the high-performance Firebird Firehawk, says it has made the name a registered trademark in preparation for launching its own high-performance models of the GTO next spring.

SLP founder Ed Hamburger said his company will offer three souped-up GTO models, one with 370 hp, one with 389 hp and one badged the "421 Judge," a version that will make 421 hp.

Lapsed ownership?

Hamburger said SLP researched the Judge name and found that ownership had been allowed to lapse. He says he also trademarked the phrase "Here's Comes The Judge," which could be used in advertising.

"GM created the trademark and it has always been associated with GM and the GTO," said Robert Kraut, GTO brand manager. "You get the right to use the trademark with usage and association."

GM will do whatever is necessary to protect its trademarks, a spokesman said.

Hamburger said SLP's GTO packages are aimed at addressing what GTO enthusiasts say are shortcomings of the new car - the lack of a functional hood scoop, rumbling dual exhausts and an aggressive appearance that signals the car's tire-shredding performance.

GTO purists have been pummeling GM with complaints about the car's styling, which many say is too bland and doesn't contain any of the original car's styling DNA.

GM officials have said they specifically don't want the new GTO to look like the old models for fear it will be perceived as a flash in the pan retro car and have a short shelf life.

Pontiac plans to sell about 18,000 GTOs in the 2004 model year. The car will sell for about $33,000.

Kraut said that an advance-order system put in place last summer has been successful, and that the first buyers are tracking their cars as they are being built. Kraut would not say how many GTOs have been sold, but said he's "cautiously optimistic" that the first year's production will sell out.

The 2004 GTO arrives in early December. It is based on the rear-wheel-drive Holden Monaro from Australia and features a 350-hp, 5.7-liter V-8 and rear-wheel drive.

Bolt-on performance

As with the Firehawk, consumers will buy GTOs from a dealer, who will ship the car to an SLP-approved upfitter to have the performance parts added.

"We've established ourselves in the marketplace as a GM tuner," said Hamburger. "This is the next logical extension of the Firehawk program now that that car has been mothballed."

For the GTO, GM is not sharing technical information with SLP. Kraut said that GM is neutral about SLP's beefed up GTOs.

"Our position is that we encourage the production of aftermarket components for our products," said Kraut. "There is a long history of SLP doing this. We shouldn't be surprised that there is a lot of interest in the GTO."

Kraut would not talk about future GM-built super-tuned versions of the GTO other than to say various groups within GM are looking at the car. "There's a real need for personalization and customization in that category of car."

Hopefully they can work something out, but GM should get the Judge nameplate, let SLP get their own name.

Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".

GTO_2004 · #2 10-20-2003, 08:34 PM

DETROIT -- General Motors and an aftermarket company that specializes in producing high-performance vehicles both are laying claim to the name "Judge" for a souped-up version of the new Pontiac GTO.

GM believes it owns the name, since it created the GTO Judge, a special performance and appearance model of the GTO marketed from 1969 through 1971. The Judge name has not been used on a vehicle since then. Production of the original GTO ended in 1974.

SLP Engineering, of Troy, Mich., best known for creating the high-performance Firebird Firehawk, says it has made the name a registered trademark in preparation for launching its own high-performance models of the GTO next spring.

SLP founder Ed Hamburger said his company will offer three souped-up GTO models, one with 370 hp, one with 389 hp and one badged the "421 Judge," a version that will make 421 hp.

Lapsed ownership?

Hamburger said SLP researched the Judge name and found that ownership had been allowed to lapse. He says he also trademarked the phrase "Here's Comes The Judge," which could be used in advertising.

"GM created the trademark and it has always been associated with GM and the GTO," said Robert Kraut, GTO brand manager. "You get the right to use the trademark with usage and association."

GM will do whatever is necessary to protect its trademarks, a spokesman said.

Hamburger said SLP's GTO packages are aimed at addressing what GTO enthusiasts say are shortcomings of the new car - the lack of a functional hood scoop, rumbling dual exhausts and an aggressive appearance that signals the car's tire-shredding performance.

GTO purists have been pummeling GM with complaints about the car's styling, which many say is too bland and doesn't contain any of the original car's styling DNA.

GM officials have said they specifically don't want the new GTO to look like the old models for fear it will be perceived as a flash in the pan retro car and have a short shelf life.

Pontiac plans to sell about 18,000 GTOs in the 2004 model year. The car will sell for about $33,000.

Kraut said that an advance-order system put in place last summer has been successful, and that the first buyers are tracking their cars as they are being built. Kraut would not say how many GTOs have been sold, but said he's "cautiously optimistic" that the first year's production will sell out.

The 2004 GTO arrives in early December. It is based on the rear-wheel-drive Holden Monaro from Australia and features a 350-hp, 5.7-liter V-8 and rear-wheel drive.

Bolt-on performance

As with the Firehawk, consumers will buy GTOs from a dealer, who will ship the car to an SLP-approved upfitter to have the performance parts added.

"We've established ourselves in the marketplace as a GM tuner," said Hamburger. "This is the next logical extension of the Firehawk program now that that car has been mothballed."

For the GTO, GM is not sharing technical information with SLP. Kraut said that GM is neutral about SLP's beefed up GTOs.

"Our position is that we encourage the production of aftermarket components for our products," said Kraut. "There is a long history of SLP doing this. We shouldn't be surprised that there is a lot of interest in the GTO."

Kraut would not talk about future GM-built super-tuned versions of the GTO other than to say various groups within GM are looking at the car. "There's a real need for personalization and customization in that category of car."

Hopefully they can work something out, but GM should get the Judge nameplate, let SLP get their own name.

Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".

Brian Baker · #3 10-20-2003, 09:32 PM

I disagree. GM couldn't give a ***** less about the "Judge" name until someone else wanted to do something with it. I say, sorry Mr. Kraut.

Once again, GM is at the airport when their boat is coming in.

They could let SLP run with this "Judge" moniker and produce the GTO's that GM won't (or doesn't want) to produce. They are missing out on a fantastic marketting opportunity but instead they will fight it out in the courts with SLP which will do nothing but bring negative press out of all of this. I say let SLP run with it and let GM reap the benefits of it without having to spend any of their own money. The SLP cars will definately get more people into the showrooms.

Somebody send Wangers over to Mr. Kraut's office so he can show him the RIGHT way to do things.

#4 10-20-2003, 09:35 PM

sour kraut?

of all the things ive lost, its my mind i miss the most.

PMDRACER · #5 10-20-2003, 10:02 PM

I have to agree with Brian on this one.

TIGER EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection for the Traditional Pontiac Engine. bill@tigerefi.com

The point to life isn't necessarilly the decimal.

ddouble · #6 10-20-2003, 10:57 PM

Good business sense Brian. They won't take it.

Dan

The DotRod rides again.

Bob Dillon · #7 10-20-2003, 11:00 PM

I don't think I'd argue with people who have more staff lawyers than most companies have employees.

HUMBLER · #8 10-21-2003, 03:59 AM

It seemed SLP has the name per an earlier post but I'd have to say the Giant might prevail in this one.

Either way, SLP make the prices reasonable (is that possbile?) and you've got some great cars there.

"I'd rather push a GTO than drive a Mustang"

6t7goat · #9 10-21-2003, 07:42 AM

If gm was so worried about the car being percieved as retro then why did they use the name GTO. Seems to me that they are playing both sides of the fence. I don't think anybody was expecting the car to look like the original, but to enhance some of the stying from the past and incorporate it into the new car. And not sharing any tech info with slp is just plain stipid to me. GM has had a long relationship with slp and all this does is hurt the end consumer by delaying the introduction of aftermarket components to the market. Some times you really have to wonder how some of these big companies make their decisions. Oh thats right, wasn't pontiac the ones that brought the Aztek to market with out ever doing any testing on consumers reaction to the car. Masters degrees and grade point averages don't take the place of common sense. I'm with Brian on this one. Let the car guys design the cars, let the bean counters count the beans!!

Fred's red sled · #10 10-21-2003, 07:49 AM

If SLP is in the game I'd take another look at the GTO. Ram air w/hood scoops, cam, heads etc and a couple sexy stickers piques my curiosity...

"Come on baby. Sit back, relax and enjoy the ride!"

fiedlerh · #11 10-21-2003, 08:11 AM

When you apply for a trademark it is published for opposition. This was done on October 22, 2002 with "THE JUDGE" and on May 6, 2003 with "HERE COME DA JUDGE" as part of the application process by SLP.

There is no record that GM ever trademarked these terms in the past or challenged SLP's proposed use during the opposition period.

GM has a weak case but lots of lawyers, guns, and money.

http://fiedlerh.home.att.net/

Tom McQueen · #12 10-21-2003, 08:18 AM

Of all three of those (lawyers, guns and money), it only takes money. We have the best legal system money can buy, and Im sure we can all name several cases where 'justice' was purchased. If it does get to court, GM will win.

ponjohn · #13 10-21-2003, 08:33 AM

Brian- coudnt of said it any better.

John
69 Judge(currently parting out)

67 Firebird

Mr_GTO · #14 10-21-2003, 08:47 AM

Well, GM performance group had hoped to use the name on their own "performance" version of the GTO. I think that is why they are fighting SLP for the name.

OldmanGoat · #15 10-21-2003, 08:57 AM

For those of you old enough to remember...visions of 1963 when GM made the corporate mandates of the time(GM just CAN'T have a sporty/racing image..it's just not us). Different situation maybe, but same corporate management themes and styles. GM needs renegades and thinkers like Delorean and the others who basicly by-passed the pencil pushers, spent time with the guys(and gals) on the street and the race tracks, and finally stepped up and said "Here ya go. Have FUN - GTO!" Of course the follow-ons happened: The GTO Judge, Chevelle S/S(btw, there have always been stories that the first S/S monikers where stolen from racing teams during the early 60's).
I say SLP should go for it and GM can learn what fools they are all over again.

Brian Baker · #16 10-21-2003, 11:15 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Well, GM performance group had hoped to use the name on their own "performance" version of the GTO. I think that is why they are fighting SLP for the name.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds great, but the only RWD performance program they have right now is the Corvette (sorry, Cadillac doesn't count).

I can see it now, a sea of Carousel Red 'Vettes with advertising proclaiming "Here Come Da' Judge!".....NOT !!!

If GM was serious about having their "performance group" build a serious Pontiac, they would have built the Firehawk from the start instead of letting an aftermarket company do it for them.

Once again, GM is getting busted in the nuts, only this time they're doing the kicking themselves.

KEVGTO · #17 10-21-2003, 11:29 AM

I totally agree with Brian. GM couldn't design the car to the enthusiast eye to begin with, and now SLP is going to give what the enthusiast want's. SLP deserves the "JUDGE" name at least they will do something with it.

_________________
"if my thought-dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine." Bob Dylan

HUMBLER · #18 10-21-2003, 11:41 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Once again, GM is getting busted in the nuts, only this time they're doing the kicking themselves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How so?

"Daddy, are we going to the gentleman's club?" My 3 year old, the other day...I have no idea!?

HUMBLER · #19 10-21-2003, 11:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by KEVGTO:
I totally agree with Brian. GM couldn't design the car to the enthusiast eye to begin with, and now SLP is going to give what the enthusiast want's. SLP deserves the "JUDGE" name at least they will do something with it.

_________________
"if my thought-dreams could be seen, they'd probably put my head in a guillotine." Bob Dylan <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GM never wanted to so how can you say "couldn't?" Let's see, market a car towards a "few" enthusiasts or the performance oriented masses? Glad they are all idiots because it is a no brainer.

"Daddy, are we going to the gentleman's club?" My 3 year old, the other day...I have no idea!?

shark landis · #20 10-21-2003, 11:44 AM

Didn't I read earlier that GM couldn't use "here comes da Judge" even when they were making the car because some gentleman already had registered it and wanted too much money for the rights? I didn't think GM knew what "too much money" was. Anyway, seeing the "GTO" and "Judge" monnikers on these egg-shaped things is like hearing your favorite song....as a jingle in a beer commercial. R.I.P.