[RA1John]

Over the years, I've come across many people who used to work at various GM/Fisher Body Assy Plants "back in the day". I'm amazed at the details these people remember.
Some from Mgmt., some from Body, Paint & Trim and some suppliers.

Recently, I met a guy who worked at Lordstown from '67 through the '70's.
He has shared a great deal of info pertaining the the 1st Gen Firebird.

So, if anyone has any specific questions, post them here and I'll pass them on to him.
He also has some pix he took inside Lordstown along with odds-n-ends things that he saved... documents, parts, etc. Hoping to meet up with him soon (lives in Ohio).
Very nice to talk with and eager to share things from the good ole days.

[The Boss]

Ask him about the D80 tag cars!

[nashcar]

My car is a Lordstown, 03A 69. I just noticed the spare wheel is coded HI which is for a 6 cylinder car. Mine has it's born with 400, why the mix up?

[JimFB400HO]

John, I just have the old questions about mysteries:
- Why did some '68s get the left washer nozzle in the wall groove and some through the firewall?
- Why Bird glass in some but not others?
- Why glovebox bird on some and not others?
- Why matching color seatbelts in some and not others?

I would enjoy seeing those pictures too.

Edit:
- And why did some cars get the front wire harness routed within the LF fender and some along the fenderwell?

[RAJ7395]

I'd like to ask the following: which parts had paint daubs and their respective colors, the locations and meanings of all crayon markings, and all the codes and meanings on the body and chassis broadcast sheets.

[dancolkate]

I'd ask him if he has any RamAir parts in the Shed :>)

[1969T/A]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Ask him about the D80 tag cars!

And Other LOR Cars With Extra Codes Like This One.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FIREB...em120217536226

[boater bill]

I think Jim asked all of the questions that I have also.

[Flowjoe]

Asking him if he knows anything about the topic of this thread:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=547070

If he stayed at Lordstown past mid '69 then he was building Vegas and not firebirds but he may still know something about it.

[RA1John]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Ask him about the D80 tag cars!

What exactly do you want to know about the D80 tag cars?

[RA1John]

Originally Posted by nashcar

My car is a Lordstown, 03A 69. I just noticed the spare wheel is coded HI which is for a 6 cylinder car. Mine has it's born with 400, why the mix up?

Obviously, I doubt this guy or any former employee can answer positively what happened. First thought would be it was changed by a previous owner or.... Someone goofed in the plant.

[RA1John]

Originally Posted by RAJ7395

I'd like to ask the following: which parts had paint daubs and their respective colors, the locations and meanings of all crayon markings, and all the codes and meanings on the body and chassis broadcast sheets.

Waiting for feedback from Bob on inspection marks. We have spoke of this in the past and he confirmed that most (if not all) were torque verification (chassis). Keep in mind, many of these marks were applied at the supplier when the part was assembled.
I'll find out what marks were applied in the Body Shop, Paint Shop, Fisher Body and Final Assembly. Unless someone kept a log-book back then or, worked at every operation, it would be impossible to determine the usage/location/colors for all codes.

The best reference for inspection marks/codes/colors is unrestored, survivor cars.
I have a collection of photos & notes from every survivor car I've had the opportunity to photograph. I'd venture to guess that many of the marks you see on a restored car may not have been there from the factory (who's to say?). Camaro's seem to have a lot of them.

As for the Body Broadcast Copy (aka... Broadcast Sheet, Build Sheet, Track Sheet, etc)
I started researching these codes back in 1991. Since then, with the help of MANY 67-69 Firebird owners, I've been able to decipher MOST all of the '68 codes and some of the '67/'69 codes. (FYI... '68 B'Cast Sheet is more common than '67/'69).

Check out the First Gen Firebird Site....
http://firstgenfirebird.org/registry...s.mv?Broadcast

If you have codes that can't be deciphered, send me a scan of the B'Cast Sheet and I'll decode it for you. NOTE: The B'Cast Copy codes are a great source of documenting your car AND for replicating various codes found on stamps, labels & tags originally left on the car. Geoff's WebSite has done a great job of organzing the data I've thrown together.

[RAJ7395]

I figured that those critical components that had to be torqued were paint daubed as a quality control check. We do the same thing here at the big fuzzy worm.

I've seen many Camaros that have the underside dotted and wondered if there is any official reference material to show what was marked and what colors were used.

Wow the Body broadcast sheet in the link is awesome. Do you have a link to a chassis broadcast sheet?? I've been compiling some CBS data and would like to compare it.

RAJ

[firebird69racer]

Why not have him sign up on here so everyone could ask directly. Just a thought

[Kurt S]

Originally Posted by 1969T/A

And Other LOR Cars With Extra Codes Like This One.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FIREB...em120217536226

That's a 67 tag. They all have those codes on them. That was the body scheduling code for sequencing the bodies on the Fisher side.
Same as http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#b, but LOR didn't use the letter prefix.

[Kurt S]

Originally Posted by RAJ7395

I figured that those critical components that had to be torqued were paint daubed as a quality control check. We do the same thing here at the big fuzzy worm.

I've seen many Camaros that have the underside dotted and wondered if there is any official reference material to show what was marked and what colors were used.

A lot of the subcomponents were marked by the supplier, not the assembly plant.

The best guy online for these types of questions is JohnZ.
He worked at the pilot plant, Willow Run, NOR, and then tore out everything out of LOR to install the Vega line.
He not only knows a lot, but kept lots of notes. He wrote: http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

He typicially hangs out at the CRG forum, http://www.camaros.org/forum/, and Team Camaro, http://www.camaros.net/forums/index.php. He is also a NCRS master judge.

[Ken2002ca]

The 1968 &1969 Comanche were built at that plant. Would he have any knowledge about these special cars shipped to Canada?
Why would the plant, punch a mark. in the paint code on the trim plate? Special order paint possibly?
Thanks Ken

[RA1John]

Originally Posted by JimFB400HO

- Why did some '68s get the left washer nozzle in the wall groove and some through the firewall?

Per Bob...Likely due to Operator error. Not following the Assembly Work Instructions.

Originally Posted by JimFB400HO

- Why Bird glass in some but not others?

Per Bob...He remembers seeing this Glass in racks (separate from standard)
however, he can't recall hearing any reason as to why some got it/some didn't.
Suspects it was a cost issue and ended earlier. This aligns with the survey many have conducted that points to the 'Bird' glass disappearing sometime after Feb.'67.

Originally Posted by JimFB400HO

- Why glovebox bird on some and not others?

Per Bob...Same explanation as 'Bird' glass. Cost savings. Early cars had them.
Usage ended sometime after Dec.'67-Jan.'68.

Odd thing is, a bulletin has never appeared addressing these issues.

Originally Posted by JimFB400HO

- Why matching color seatbelts in some and not others?

Per Bob...Fisher Body oops. He claims there was a color-coordination standard for things like seatbelts however, mistakes were made.

Originally Posted by JimFB400HO

- And why did some cars get the front wire harness routed within the LF fender and some along the fenderwell?

Per Bob...Sounds like an Engineering change and/or Operator deviation from process.

[RA1John]

Background info on Bob (former employee at Lordstown)....

Started at Lordstown in late '65 when the plant was being built.
Retired in '91 as a Paint Shop Superintendent. Worked in Trim, Final and Material Handling. First cars they built were '66 Chevrolets then Firebird, then Vega.

Something to consider.
With Chevy's going down the same line as the Firebirds, I would think there must have been a lot of common parts. Fasteners for sure.


More to follow...

[Kurt S]

Originally Posted by RA1John

Bird glass:
Per Bob...He remembers seeing this Glass in racks (separate from standard)
however, he can't recall hearing any reason as to why some got it/some didn't.
Suspects it was a cost issue and ended earlier. This aligns with the survey many have conducted that points to the 'Bird' glass disappearing sometime after Feb.'67.

I don't believe it was a cost issue. The emblem on the glass was removed per federal law. They were worried about it impeding vision. Same thing happened in Camaros with "Astro Ventilation".

Seat belts:
Per Bob...Fisher Body oops. He claims there was a color-coordination standard for things like seatbelts however, mistakes were made.

I'd have to see the belts and interior in question. But certain interior colors (red, green, etc) had one color of standard belts (normally black) and the deluxe belts would be color matched.