[wwbdsb]

Any suggestions on paints, colors, plating for front steering components, sway bar, etc. Is the steering damper black or gray like the shocks?

[Rich-Tripower]

Damper is gray like the shocks. The brackets are chassis black. Most often the springs were left bare (use a cast iron paint) as were the tie rods and center link. The tie rod adjuster sleeve was often painted black.

[SONIC 4 U]

Originally Posted by Rich-Tripower

Damper is gray like the shocks. The brackets are chassis black. Most often the springs were left bare (use a cast iron paint) as were the tie rods and center link. The tie rod adjuster sleeve was often painted black.

This is how we did the 64 we just completed. It's a little dusty as this was taken before the detail. Attachment 1


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[wwbdsb]

Thanks for the info. How about the backing plates black or cast?

[Rich-Tripower]

Backing plates seem to be a crapshoot. Some were painted black, some were left bare. I always paint them since that seems to make the most sense. Some of my experience is across all GM makes so Pontiac alone may have been different but the suppliers for such parts were all the same across the divisions.

[John V.]

I won't claim to know more than anybody else for the backing plates.

But I was influenced by the '65 Olds F85 Assembly Manual, the page that details the chassis blackout requirements.

They stipulate that the backing plates were NOT to be painted during the Final Assembly chassis blackout except that "slight fogging" of the backing plates and edges of the brake drums was permissible.

But they also show the front stabilizer bar was NOT to be painted between the stabilizer brackets whereas I painted my entire bar and believe that my bar was painted end to end originally.

My backing plates are original Delco Moraine stamped parts, stamped with the original early '64 p/ns.

We have discussed whether these would have been Gold Cadmium plated or Silver Cadmium. I remember being told decades ago that they were Gold Cad but I was never certain if that was ever true or if it was true in '64.

In the end I went with Gold Cadmium, the color I think is an acquired taste.

But I chose it because my sense is that Delco Moraine used Gold Cad for a number of brake related things (boosters, m/c cap) so I deduced that they very well might have used Gold Cad plating on the backing plates.

I had Colorado Plating do them, they offer Silver Cad and Gold Cad plating service.

Most everything got shot with the thin black paint during chassis "blackout". I've posted pix before from the Fremont Plant in '64, a car being final assembled. Prior to black out, the front upper control arms were unpainted and not real pretty. After blackout, shiny black on the top side that probably didn't protect for much beyond the typical 3 year car loan if that.

Springs were sprayed. But they were hand sprayed by a guy who probably spent 45 secs hitting most of what he was to hit on the chassis. Undersides and backsides of things were not gonna see his spray nozzle. How much paint hit the springs? I sure don't know.

So for some of this stuff, you have to decide if you want to finish it as it left the factory or choose some parts like springs to be painted silver grey (or some other color) to give the chassis some "contrast". Either way, it will be painted much nicer and more thoroughly than what was done originally.

[Dick Boneske]

I agree with John. The pictures of the '64 GTO front suspension bear no resemblance to what these cars looked like when they were built. John's description of the guy with a spray gun (black only, by the way) who sprayed under the car after assembly covered 50% of the components at best. I remember my '64 when new had black shiny paint on the front suspension components, including the backing plates, steering arms, A arms, springs, bottom of the steering box, etc. The floor pans, drive shaft, differential, rear suspension arms, springs, shocks, and trunk floor got various degrees of shiny black paint. There were many runs in the paint. Rust occurred in a few weeks on the uncovered areas such as the top of the differential housing, steering box, A arms, tie rods, and backing plates.

When we restore our old Pontiacs, we do a much more thorough job of painting the underside than the factory. However, if we did only as well as the factory, winning approval at a car show would not happen.

I'm not advocating we shouldn't do the underside as well as we can, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking the pictures in the #3 post above look like a new '64 GTO!

[John V.]

Well put Dick.

Have posted these before but attached are a few pix that illustrate.

The B&W photo from the Olds guys, shows the blackout spray at the Lansing Plant.

The other two show the unpainted front suspension components as the 326 engine and Super Turbine trans assembly is being dropped in a '64 Tempest build at the then brand new Fremont Plant.

The 2nd shows the Tempest at the Body Drop on the Final Line, now the upper A-arms all shiny black.

You can bet the blackout treatment at Fremont was done pretty much the same as at Lansing and at every other GM Assembly Plant.

I hope my restored and painted components will look nice for many years, not begin to bleed rust in a few weeks!

I know Sonic and Dick feel the same way about their beautiful restorations. For some of the components, I think it is okay to go with what you think looks good to you rather than hoping to understand how those pieces looked when they rolled off the line.

[Cardo]

Thanks for posting those John. Very helpful. I am will be starting my restoration soon on my '65, and want it reasonably close to as built as i can get it. Not a matching numbers restoration, but i would like to appear as it would have been built.

[61-63]

I have approximately twenty five pictures I took of the underside of a freshly restored '65 GTO at Jim Mott Restorations in Kimberly Idaho 5 to 10 years ago and if you like I will post them. Jim Mott is the GTOAA '65 tech person listed at the front of "The Legend" magazine and cars done by him regularly earn best of show and gold status honors at GTOAA and other car events all over the place. He is pretty much considered to be the Scott Tieman of the west. Or perhaps Tieman is the Jim Mott of the east?

[Cardo]

That would be fantastic. I am in the research stage right now... My car is actually a Lemans, and i will keeping it a Lemans, and plan on restoring it except for the fact the drive train is gone, so it will be a 400 dressed as a 326, and a 200r4 overdrive instead of the 2 speed. Other than that, front disc brakes and some aftermarket wheels, i plan on the rest of it appearing as a stock restored car. I am even going as far as welding in the bottom of a 4 barrel air cleaner into the bottom of my 2 barrel to disguise the QJet that will be living underneath.

[61-63]

As I recall Jim Mott did say that both the front and rear suspension were sprayed with black paint from the front on the front end components and rear on the rear end components, so rust would not be seen on those areas from the front or rear of the car after it left the assembly plant. I do not recall asking him if he did that on restored cars but do not think he does, but I vaguely remember looking down into the engine bay of one of his '65 GTO restorations at the first Dayton co-vention in '09 and
the suspension components facing toward the front of the car had been sprayed with a thin coating of black paint. I may be remembering this wrong. I'm going to post all the pictures I have and the silver looking components are painted to be bare steel which he said was the way they left the assembly plants. I don't know how many '64 and '65 GTOs he has done for people but it is quite a lot.

[61-63]

more

[61-63]

and more

[61-63]

and more yet

[61-63]

getting close

[61-63]

last one. I have more of the engine bay, etc. but will stop here.

[Cardo]

Thank you very much 61-63! That is exactly what i was looking for.... i will copy all of those tonight when i get home and add to the collection. Collecting parts and info at this point... hope to get to pull the body off mine in the next month or two.

[remy30006]

Originally Posted by 61-63

last one. I have more of the engine bay, etc. but will stop here.

I would be interested in seeing the engine compartment ones especially if its a 4 barrel.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by John V.

Well put Dick.

Have posted these before but attached are a few pix that illustrate.

The B&W photo from the Olds guys, shows the blackout spray at the Lansing Plant.

The other two show the unpainted front suspension components as the 326 engine and Super Turbine trans assembly is being dropped in a '64 Tempest build at the then brand new Fremont Plant.

The 2nd shows the Tempest at the Body Drop on the Final Line, now the upper A-arms all shiny black.

You can bet the blackout treatment at Fremont was done pretty much the same as at Lansing and at every other GM Assembly Plant.

I hope my restored and painted components will look nice for many years, not begin to bleed rust in a few weeks!

I know Sonic and Dick feel the same way about their beautiful restorations. For some of the components, I think it is okay to go with what you think looks good to you rather than hoping to understand how those pieces looked when they rolled off the line.

Originally Posted by 61-63

As I recall Jim Mott did say that both the front and rear suspension were sprayed with black paint from the front on the front end components and rear on the rear end components, so rust would not be seen on those areas from the front or rear of the car after it left the assembly plant. I do not recall asking him if he did that on restored cars but do not think he does, but I vaguely remember looking down into the engine bay of one of his '65 GTO restorations at the first Dayton co-vention in '09 and
the suspension components facing toward the front of the car had been sprayed with a thin coating of black paint. I may be remembering this wrong. I'm going to post all the pictures I have and the silver looking components are painted to be bare steel which he said was the way they left the assembly plants. I don't know how many '64 and '65 GTOs he has done for people but it is quite a lot.

I supervised this operation in the truck assembly plant. Chassis black was/is a thin, watery "paint" (calling it paint is generous). The operator pretty much sprayed it in the general direction of the chassis; coverage was spotty at best.

If I paid big bucks to have a car restored, and it looked like they do when they roll off the end of the line, I would be very disappointed.

K