[madhatter]

Hi All!
I have a 1961 Pontiac Bonneville Landau style hearse, long wheel base. I don't know much about Pontiacs but when this car came along I couldn't pass it up. So I'm learning as I go.
I was told it had a 389, but have been reading some of your posts and now I'm not so sure. Where do I find #'s on block. And the major problem is I need a rear seal for the tranny but I have no idea what it is or how to tell. I thought maybe a Jetaway 315, but after reading some posts I'm thinking Roto Hydramatic, R is on the bottom of indicator. How do I tell for sure and where can I get a seal? She's really being a pain and I just want to be able to drive her again. Thanks!
Madhatter

[madhatter]

Hi All!
I have a 1961 Pontiac Bonneville Landau style hearse, long wheel base. I don't know much about Pontiacs but when this car came along I couldn't pass it up. So I'm learning as I go.
I was told it had a 389, but have been reading some of your posts and now I'm not so sure. Where do I find #'s on block. And the major problem is I need a rear seal for the tranny but I have no idea what it is or how to tell. I thought maybe a Jetaway 315, but after reading some posts I'm thinking Roto Hydramatic, R is on the bottom of indicator. How do I tell for sure and where can I get a seal? She's really being a pain and I just want to be able to drive her again. Thanks!
Madhatter

[Floyd Hand]

Welcome to PY. I will try to help. To find the engine code, while standing in front of car, look at left side head (pass. side) just where head joins block. On the block you will see serial numbers and a engine code. It will be something like K1, NB, etc. Post that number here and we will give specs for it. The engine should be a 389 if it has not been changed. The transmission will be a four-speed hydromatic, not the slim-jim.which is a three-speed. The Slim-Jim only came in the Catalina that year. The Bonneville and Star-Chief had the four-speed Hydros.
Check Hemmings Motor News for Fatsco transmissions. He will have what you need. Others will be along with more info.

[61man]

If it's a bonneville, it has a 4 speed hydromatic, napa can probably order you the seal.also the only engine for the anerican built cars was a 389. The 326 was the only other v8 used by pontiac and they only put them in tempest. All of the above is correct only if you have the orig. engine and transmission in the car. There is a code on the front of the block on the passenger side below the head that will tell which engine it has. If you can get me all of the numbers from the front of the block, I can probably tell you which engine you have.....

[Stuart]

First of all, welcome to the forum!

Just to clarify the above answers, the Roto-Hydramatic is also called the Slim Jim, and the Jetaway is also called the four speed Hydramatic. Being based on a Bonneville, your hearse should have the Jetaway.

All full size cars had the 389ci engine in 1961 (the Tempest used the 215ci aluminum Buick/Olds motor in '61 and '62, the 326 didn't show up till 1963.)

In 1961, the car's VIN number was stamped on the block right below the model code mentioned in previous posts, so if your engine is original its number should match the number on the driver's door jamb.

Was your car built by Superior? They were the biggest manufacturer of ambulances and hearses back then, I believe, but there were one or two others. I have some production numbers on them at home, I'll look them up tonight. At any rate your car is pretty rare nowdays.

Post some pictures if you can, we'd like to see this monster.

[Stuart]

From the book, "75 Years of Pontiac-Oakland" by John Gunnell, the Superior Coach Corporation in Lima, Ohio built 264 long wheelbase professional vehicles in 1961, in their 'Criterion' line:

- 20 hearses
- 81 ambulances
- 163 combination hearse/ambulance cars

They also built 132 short wheelbase professional vehicles in their 'Consort' line:

- 13 hearses
- 38 ambulances
- 81 combination hearse/ambulance cars

There was also the Cotner-Covington Company in Blytheville, Arkansas that built some short wheelbase cars and the Pioneer Coach Company in Memphis that built some long wheelbase cars. No production numbers were given for either company, but they were most likely a lot less than Superior.

[madhatter]

Thanks guys! You've been a big help already. I've ruled out the Roto Hydramatic, the pan is wrong for that. So it probably is the Jetaway. I'm assuming that trans is original. Motor is, the numbers match.(58,00 original miles) 861P4531 on block and door tag.Also on block is 059742 with BB under that. Don't see anything else. I checked on Fatsco Transmission, they have parts for the Jetaway.
She is Superior Model#2615, Body#177, Sill#P-552, Date of Mfg. 1-3-61. This is so awesome! I wish I would have found this forum a long time ago. It would have saved alot of headaches. I have a feeling I'll be visiting here alot since every time I get one thing fixed, something else breaks. I'm looking forward to checking out the beautiful old Pontiacs in this forum. Thank you so much!
Madhatter
aka Julie

[Stuart]

Engine code BB indicates you have the 303hp engine that's standard in a Bonneville, so that makes sense. It came from the factory with a single 4 barrel carb, compression ratio is 10.25:1.

You should check out the recently created full-size Pontiac website at www.fullsizepontiacs.com. Also, if you haven't already found out about it you may want to consider joining the Pontiac-Oakland Club International (www.poci.org) or least get hold of Paul Bergstrom in Minnesota, he is the contact person for the Commercial and Professional cars chapter of the Pontiac-Oakland club, 763/479-2248.

[madhatter]

Here's a pic of my baby! It makes her look better than she is. She's got some problems but I'm concentrating on the mechanical stuff first. The cosmetics will come later.
Madhatter

[Stuart]

Very cool! It looks like it's a straight hearse, not a combination ambulance/hearse, so according to the numbers I posted yesterday it's one of only twenty built. Pretty darn rare.

Getting back to your transmission issue, look around at some of the other recent postings on the board for Steve Peluso - he's the resident transmission guru around here and should be able to help you with where to find a new rear seal.

[Rocky 389]

Great hearse. I just returned from a trip to southern Oregon where a buddy of my brother has a 62 Superior just like your 61. It's got engine parts missing and grille parts missing. Says he's "gonna do something with it someday".
Right........

[PRC]

Stuart, since you seem to know something about hearses maybe you can help me. I have a 83 Buick hearse (wish it was a Pontiac) but I do not know which company did the conversion. It seems to me that there should be some type of ID tag somewhere but I have not found it. Can you tell me what I should look for and where I should be looking?

[Stuart]

Brian, I wish I could help you but I really don't know much about hearses in general...my thing is '61 Pontiacs and I've compiled quite a bit of information on them. As a result I have some info on professional cars of that year and make, but that's about it.

I agree there should be a data tag of some sort somewhere on your car, I'd guess it would be next to the regular VIN tag but that's just a guess. There is a professional car club out there someplace that should be able to help you, I remember seeing a website for them a while back.

[madhatter]

Rocky,
It's just too bad that someday never comes for some of these great old rides! Mine had sat in a salvage yard for 10 yrs till I found her!
Brian,
Try www.phantomcoaches.org or www.graveyardhaulerz.com. They have some very knowledgeable people at both places,they can probably help you identify the coach maker. Hope this helps!
I'll keep you all posted on my seal search.
Madhatter
Julie

[stevep]

Slim-Jim and Jetaway use the same rear seal as a Ford C6 or a Chrysler TF-8,without the dust boot.

[madhatter]

Thanks Steve! I'll check on it tomorrow.
Madhatter

[Floyd Hand]

Here is the Victor seal number for the rear seal: 46144. The specs. are 1 11/16X2, 506X35/64", Group F. Might be able to cross it over.

[PRC]

Madhatter, thanks for the tips on those websites. I never knew so many people were into hearses. I still have not ID'd mine but I believe I will be able to do so with some of the info I read on those sites.

[madhatter]

Hi Floyd,
My dads name was Floyd. Thanks for the info, I'm working on it. Hopefully she'll be up and running real soon.
And Brian, there are tons of people into hearses and other professional vehicles. I was really surprised too when I started looking around on the web. You could try the Professional Car Society also.
Happy Hearsing!
Madhatter