[Baron Von Zeppelin]

12 bolters : I'm agreeing with the internals being like the Chevy 12 bolt C-clip rears, and not the 10 bolts disguised with 12 bolt covers. As far as where they were made and any casting differences - Idunno at all. If the backing plates and drums are diffy - I might be in a bind cause I expect to need new drums on mine eventually. I have 2 chevy 12 bolts stuck back for spare parts - in assumption the junk would interchange. Tackle it when/if I get there.

[allen smith]

Do all the members here in this discussion believe the 10 bolt is stronger than the C Type? Also wondering if the Pontiac and Olds C Type have the same yoke, etc or are they different rears altogether?

[TJH]

To add perhaps more confusion- I recently built a 12-bolt that originally came out of a 1972 Grand Prix (455 car). The backing plates were cracked where the wheel cylinders bolted on, so I had to replace them. I got generic, still-available-from-GM 10/12 bolt backing plates, and could not see any difference between the ones that I removed, and the new ones.
If those backing plates are at all different, I'd love to hear the details. Because, from what I have seen, they are the same.
And Steve, I pretty much agree that with Pontiac, one can never say never. However, I have yet to see any documantation that would support or authenticate a car built with what would be considered an incorrect rear end. I'd love to see it, if one exists...

[Kenth]

The internals of a 1968-72 Chevelle 12-bolt are the same as in a 1970-72 Pontiac 12-bolt, BUT, they uses different yoke, seal, backing plates and drums.
Chevy brakes adjustments are made through the drum and Pontiac brakes adjustments are made through the backing plate.

[Steve Hoog]

TJH

I wouldn't go one way or the other on this rearend thing, so many different things happened in 70-72 in regards to rearends.

This I can tell you. My families dealership was never into performance, but the one thing we did do was have a couple of cars built with special rearends. Pontiac would pull them off the line and send them to an area like engineering, then install the rear we requested. Specifically Chevy 12 bolts in a couple of 69 A bodies.

[Mark Simiele]

That makes me feel good as the only non matching not correct part in my 69 convertible is the 1970 12 bolt chevy posi that someone added years ago. I was actually going to swap it out a few years ago for a correct 10 bolt for 69 but everyone said I was crazy.

[1969 Ram Air]

It's up to $275k and it ends tonight. My guess is $305k.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Since Daniels wanted 350k for his "semi-similar condition" 71 Jvert. I'm just guessing the reserve is around 400k - or more - on this one.

I didn't even attempt to make a viewing reservation this past weekend due to the weather forecasted. Maybe someday I'll get to see it somewhere.

You know ... someone could put in a nuclear bid and see how much the reserve pops up at. Then retract the bid. Is that playing dirty pool ? (oops)

[SWEETMUSCLE]

One of the bidders did hit the resreve and then retracted his bid . This happend all in a matter of minutes . I say 350,000

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

ahh ha, I see that now. Retracted bid of 300k. If that hit reserve, then I expect this Car will be traveling soon. Maybe the Smithstonian Institute has an opening ?

[Jerry H.]

Got a new bidder in the final minutes. He's from Maryland. Ummm.

[1969 Ram Air]

It reached $284k without hitting the reserve. Bummer.

[Glenn]

I'm very suspect of this whole thing....bidders going to $285,000 but prior to this most purchases were low priced items. (video games) One guy once bought a 54 Corvette shell for $15,000. Seem fishy to me.

Jerry H is on the right track. This whole thing doesn't add up.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

Got a new bidder in the final minutes. He's from Maryland. Ummm.

And in the parts business - Gary has a body shop that does a lot of high end foreign car collision work.

[Guilty]

FYI that 1970 Ram Air IV Judge convert sold for over 400,00.00 at the RM auction last weekend

[ramair2]

since when does a log exhaust d port mild cam 455 compare with a roundport ram air iv race motor?

not in same league imo.

still dont understand the infatuation many have with the 1970 455 "HO". Bit of a dog in my book.

btw, boca RM ram 4 judge sold for 400K even. i was there.

[roundportponchos]

I'd have to agree 100%

Originally Posted by ramair2

since when does a log exhaust d port mild cam 455 compare with a roundport ram air iv race motor?

not in same league imo.

still dont understand the infatuation many have with the 1970 455 "HO". Bit of a dog in my book.

btw, boca RM ram 4 judge sold for 400K even. i was there.

[trishieldchief]

I agree as well
Pontiac was sleeping for 1970 by not having a high compression round port real 455 HO
A 70 455 ho is nothing more than a station wagon motor with a standard GTO camshaft....YAWN.
Buick had the LEATHAL Stage 1 455
Olds had the W30 and Chevy had the LS6 in 1970
Pontiac ?
This Judge conv is rare yes, but undesirable from a performance standpoint to a real high performance RA III or RA IV Judge conv both of which in my opinion are worth more than a 70 455 ho Judge conv.

[Judge273]

IMO the performance package option is what the Judge had over the GTO. Engine choice was the next level of performance enhancement to an already cool car. The vert being the ultimate Judge that had all the cool components and is highly desirable and most rare today. The 455 D-port is my last choice for a performance engine. It maybe rare but is it desirable?

But, that red Judge vert is a great survivor car!

[ramair2]

Only thing I can add is that perhaps some Pontiac people (mistakely) link the "station wagon" 1970 D-port 455 HO with its mild cam and restrictive exhaust with the MUCH more impressive 1971-2 455 HO roundport motors.

Even with lower compression, the 71-2 woud eat up any 70 455"HO" for breakfast.

Now the million dollar question is why PMD didnt outfit the 70 455 with RA 4 top end, cam and free flowing exhaust. THAT hi compression motor would have mated everything good about RA II/IV with 71-2's higher cubes.

Can you say awesome?!?

Too bad...