[green70judge]

I can't keep quiet anymore... I hate the fact that people are cloning Judges. Simply put if you don't have one...then accept it. If you drive a lemans...then don't make it a GTO... it is what it is!!! I copied this from classicalpontiac...
in reference to a 70 lemans for sale...

I got this car in the summer with the intensions of turning it into a Judge and then got a Real Judge. It's a 2 door hardtop with a 350 motor and 350 trans. Car has ps, pb, ac, ralley wheels, dual exhaust, paint appears to be original. Car is orig. from Tennessee. I also have GTO fenders and wheel houses that go with the car. Drive it as is or make it a Judge.

I can't take this.....

Am I wrong to feel this way...

[Steve Hoog]

I'm a cloner.

I've had real Judges and got rid of them, but kept my clone.

HOWEVER, it is not with intent of selling or fooling anyone. I also prefer Holley's and don't care if the numbers match, so what do I know.

[george kujanski]

I had a Lemans and added GTO grilles but kept the Lemans badging, only becasue I liked the look of the GTO grille over the Lemans. Besides, it was a OHC Sprint, which was more rare than a GTO.

George

[Region Warrior]

Oh well...to bad

[green70judge]

these cases I can understand.... its the people who do things in order to pull the wool over peoples eyes...

[TJH]

With pedigreed musclecars bringing the money that they are these days, cloning starts to become desireable in a LOT of situations.
Personally, I like to drive my cars. I can't stand the trailer queens that are fully restored, yet don't even have oil in the crankcase (because, heaven forbid, they might drip on the polished granite or marble of the owner's garage-mahal). However, to drive an original Judge becomes a question of risk-versus-benefit, with the many idiot drivers on their cell phones that won't even notice your car until after they have destroyed it.
In these situations, a well-done clone, in my opinion, is MUCH better than an original. You can drive it, thrash on it, and enjoy it without worrying about the level of risk that you would be taking with a true collectible. Your 401K won't be instantly zeroed out if the unthinkable happens, and you can have fun without the constant paranoia.

[1971WARBIRD]

years ago i took a pile of parts and turned a rust free 73 firebird into a 71 look alike white/red stripe/red interior ta.71 suspension,engine,trans,just a really neat looking car.we finished putting the exhuast on it may the 7th,may the 11th i was t-boned by a drunk driver.luckly we were not hurt and the cops showed up before i could hurt him.if it would have been my 71 4speed ta i don't know what i would have done.i have a ton of real ta's sitting around i'm fixing up.some to sell,and 1 or 2 to keep,but after that i'm afraid to drive a nice restored one.also i would not want to modifiy a real judge or super duty.i have a rust free 72 lemans someone put a 71 endura front end on.when i'm done it will have a 72 455ho pushing over 500hp,400turbo,4.10 12 bolt posi and i will drive it like i stole it and that includes back and forth to work.how many would do that with a real judge.i am with you on one thing,cloning or what ever you want to call it for fooling a buyer is wrong.over the years i've done a few,but will not sell one because i don't want someone years later saying he bought a car he thought was real and it was one i did for myself and someone down the road forgot to say it was a clone when he soldit.i both like and dislike where the money in these things have gone.i like it because what i bought years ago is now worth in the 6 didgets,but hate it because its hard to enjoy it when you are waiting for the next drunk driver.in short,they each have their place.a numbers car at a show and a clone on the street,but not a clone at a show or a numbers car on the street.just my 2 cents.

[pontiacpetey]

I hate fake boobs but they are still nice to look at. ;-)

[AG]

I hate pretentious Judge owners who hate people who clone. Did you notice hate is a very strong word? Unbelieveable, get a life.

[TJH]

Aw, c'mon. He's just upset because anyone with a base GTO and about $300 worth of stickers, a rear deck spoiler, and some rattle-can black paint (for the hood scoops and grilles) can look EXACTLY like his mega-buck car...

[b-man]

Originally Posted by TJH

Aw, c'mon. He's just upset because anyone with a base GTO and about $300 worth of stickers, a rear deck spoiler, and some rattle-can black paint (for the hood scoops and grilles) can look EXACTLY like his mega-buck car...

[kookykrispy]

Originally Posted by green70judge

I can't keep quiet anymore... I hate the fact that people are cloning Judges. Simply put if you don't have one...then accept it. If you drive a lemans...then don't make it a GTO... it is what it is!!!

Well we all hate you then...

get over yourself

Who cares what other people do to their cars... are you the GTO police?

[eaglesan13]

I don't mind clones, it's the "recreations" and the "tribute vehicles" I can't stand.

[brianberes]

I agree. Build it how you want and drive it how you want. Just enjoy the Pontiac experience and know that you're one of the few out there that get it. I am one of those that wants to restore my 70 GTO, but I've decided to convert it into a Judge clone. Though, I am not doing it to decieve anyone. I just can't afford a real Judge and I was lucky enough to find a reasonably priced authentic GTO in decent condition. Like the guy said above the only difference between a Judge and a GTO is an option checked that got you decals, a glove box emblem and front and rear spoilers. A Judge still has the GTO emblem on the front grill don't forget. I think it's great that even though I've been out of the Pontiac scene for about 20 years, there are people out there that are passionate about their Pontiacs!

Long live Ponchos! Now if we can just straighten out GM and what they're currently putting out for Pontiacs. Let's hope for the 2009 GTO.

Brian

[Greg Reid]

I don't see the problem with it. If they call it a clone, they're not trying to fool anyone.
If I ever found myself with a nice baseline '70 Lemans, I'd have to paint it Orbit Orange....but not because I'd be trying to fool anyone. I just like the color.

[Ron Landis]

Originally Posted by 1971WARBIRD

years ago i took a pile of parts and turned a rust free 73 firebird into a 71 look alike white/red stripe/red interior ta.71 suspension,engine,trans,just a really neat looking car.we finished putting the exhuast on it may the 7th,may the 11th i was t-boned by a drunk driver.luckly we were not hurt and the cops showed up before i could hurt him.if it would have been my 71 4speed ta i don't know what i would have done.i have a ton of real ta's sitting around i'm fixing up.some to sell,and 1 or 2 to keep,but after that i'm afraid to drive a nice restored one.also i would not want to modifiy a real judge or super duty.i have a rust free 72 lemans someone put a 71 endura front end on.when i'm done it will have a 72 455ho pushing over 500hp,400turbo,4.10 12 bolt posi and i will drive it like i stole it and that includes back and forth to work.how many would do that with a real judge.i am with you on one thing,cloning or what ever you want to call it for fooling a buyer is wrong.over the years i've done a few,but will not sell one because i don't want someone years later saying he bought a car he thought was real and it was one i did for myself and someone down the road forgot to say it was a clone when he soldit.i both like and dislike where the money in these things have gone.i like it because what i bought years ago is now worth in the 6 didgets,but hate it because its hard to enjoy it when you are waiting for the next drunk driver.in short,they each have their place.a numbers car at a show and a clone on the street,but not a clone at a show or a numbers car on the street.just my 2 cents.

do you have the engine to your T/A currently at Jim Hillard's shop? Just wondered. Ron

[1971WARBIRD]

Originally Posted by jegstek

do you have the engine to your T/A currently at Jim Hillard's shop? Just wondered. Ron

yes,he has the engine to one of my 71 ta's.dave is getting ready to do a 78 400 for my 78 4speed.great guys,i'm lucky they put up with me sitting around talking their ears off.

[allmycarsrjunk]

I hate everybody.

[TCSGTO]

It's funny how the Judges have taken off in value & desireability. In the 70's many of them were stripped of their stripes & spoilers & turned into "regular" GTO's since a Judge was like a joke that most people didn't get.
I think I'm going to buy a Judge & clone a GTO with it!

[Region Warrior]

Dont get me wrong, i love'm all, so the more FB's, GTO's and yes...even the dark siders out there, the better.
And if they have all the disired options, thats way cool.
Just dont try and pass'm off as an original #'s matching car.