[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes Reply, this is the end of this post!

See Hesster1977 for the rest of his Info. on" H-O".

Closed Post, Good Reading, Mike out.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

In my last Post called "HO INFORMATION DIVULDGED", by TraderMike2012, I attempted to repair the H-O documents written on the PY Forum
and spoken by the owners of H-O and certain PY Forum members. With some help from some members, I was able to Insert the missing Photos from those very documents but not exactly where they were originally. Therefore, the reader must do their best to put the Photo to the Text. I added my own Pictures from my computer to add to the H-O ones when I could help the cause.

The H-O Information on the PY Forum is repaired and still contains the original Text by the various Authers but PY Forum members can only see the Photos that I added back into each file. Photos are out of their original order and PY readers are asked to extrapolate or Interprete that information the best way they can.

Let me explain to the people who are not aware why I at times, Insert a Text document. In the case of the H-O documents, you can't go out over the Internet or even onto this PY Forum to both view the photos and the Text in the same way as you could prior to when someone wiped out the original Information to the server's way back, years maybe. The only reason I can, on my own computer, is because of the habit I have had for the last 10 years and that is to save in three different places and in three different ways.

Since some of my saved documents or information are saved Text to Note Pad, Photos are in a sub-directories and my html's and mhtml's and the like are on one of my various hard-drives. I for example open Hurb Adams html on my computer and because I have saved all the original files attached to that html only, I can work off-line and view Herb Adams's document. I can't share it to the forum because that original link is broken and the first thing the computer does is try to find that information over the Internet. Now, the PY Forum won't allow me to Post the html or mhtml or the like to the Forum either. One can only Insert jpg and bmp and the like Photos type of files. So, when I Insert an entire Text file of Forum members speaking to one another I have no choice especially when the links are broken. When the Information is out in cyber space where it is live and accessible all of us can easily share that URL on the Forum.

Please be advised that many times I post large Text files instead of simple URL's, because it is the only way to Input that Information, that I have in my archives to share. That information, most of the time, is edited down by removing stuff like "what car and motor and cam etc... That person is saying that they drove when they were younger", this way if one uses a reader to read back Text to oneself, you're not wasting valuable time.

Some of you want it all, edited not too long, capital this and leave space between paragraphs. I try to appease most of you but give me a break please quit your wineing. Can I have some wine with that cheese? I am here for free because I gained valuable Information over the Internet in the last 10 years. I am in the correct Forum Street area. From now on my Post if there is something you're not interested in or it is too long, skip it, don't complain to me because I am not getting paid here. I owe no explanation to anybody and one may write any length Post they want. You are welcome to add Photos and stories about your racing experiences and you can Insert Articles as others have been on my last Thread. You are encouraged to Post Photos when you can, Text if you have some, etc...

Hesster1977 will be Posting his remaining H-O Articles and more in this Thread for about a year, once a week. I have no limit and I just want to enjoy the Internet experience. When I am on your Thread, I will write in it, as you wish. You don't have to be rude, just ask me and I will comply, this goes for everybody. I will be following Hesster1977 "ALL THINGS PONTIAC" FROM THIS THREAD AND ADDING WHAT I HAVE IN MY VAST ARCIVES, in an orderly fashion, in this very post. We can all work together and I invite Input from all that have Pontiac Information from A-Z. Follow Hesster1977, he has lots of Period correct Pontiac Articles on his Post "All Things Pontiac".

Please visit the last Thread about "H-O Information Divulged" by TraderMike2012 for the first Half of this Thread and please see any of TraderMike2012 other existing prier Posts.

[Hesster1977]

Well Pontiac fans, let the posting commence.
As Mike stated, I will get to posting the HO articles, but will first post in this thread the more technical type of articles out of the Pontiac and TA Mags.
My other "ATP" post is more focused on feature cars and options out of the Pontiac and TA Mags.
So we will start with "The Great Gearbox Grinders Guide" - all about the Pontiac Manual's.

[Tom Vaught]

The article makes it sound like the Ford Top Loader 3 speed was built with the overdrive
capability built into the transmission on all transmissions.

There were Ford 3 speed and 4 speed Top Loader Transmissions, if I remember correctly.

The transmissions built with the internal overdrive gears came later. 4th gear being a overdrive gear ratio.
They were designed for Ford Vans for increased gas mileage.

All of the OEMS had a transmission that could energize a weak overdrive unit unit attached to the transmissions where a stock tail shaft housing was originally mounted. The integral overdrive gear solution was much better.

During the first oil/gas crisis, some smart Pontiac guys were picking up a Ford van transmission and installing it with the dual pattern Pontiac Bellhousing. A 3 speed driveshaft worked well if you could find one for the 3 speed built vehicles.

So a good article but like most not perfect in the information when using the 3 speed trans. Lots of 1980 Ford Vans were built with the Top Loader cast iron 3 speeds with overdrive.

Tom V.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

The article makes it sound like the Ford Top Loader 3 speed was built with the overdrive
capability built into the transmission on all transmissions.

There were Ford 3 speed and 4 speed Top Loader Transmissions, if I remember correctly.

The transmissions built with the internal overdrive gears came later. 4th gear being an overdrive gear ratio.
They were designed for Ford Vans for increased gas mileage.

All of the OEMS had a transmission that could energize a weak overdrive unit attached to the transmissions, where a stock tail shaft housing was originally mounted. The integral overdrive gear solution was much better.

During the first oil/gas crisis, some smart Pontiac guys were picking up a Ford van transmission and installing it with the dual pattern Pontiac Bellhousing. A 3-speed driveshaft worked well if you could find one for the 3 speed-built vehicles.

So, a good article but like most not perfect in the information when using the 3-speed trans. Lots of 1980 Ford Vans were built with the Top Loader cast Iron 3- speeds with overdrive.

Tom V.

Mikes Reply: Never say never and never say always, there is that Gray area! Maybe people should do a little more research before they sell us on what they think they know. JMO

[Keith Seymore]

Speaking of oddballs, there was the New Process A833, available in the Chevy squarebody pickups (ie, 1980-87), which was a MOPAR trans with third gear set 1:1 and fourth gear as a 0.7:1 overdrive. They had to flip the shift arms on the trans to make it work.

It also came with a factory Hurst shifter.

K

[Dragncar]

Our 1966 Pontiac Catalina station wagon had a 3 on the tree with a Ford Toploader 3 speed from the factory. It got 20 MPG on flat ground. 389 2 barrel engine, my dad got a AFB intake and carb from a GTO and put it on. Sounded great when kicked in.
I continued the tradition installing a short tail Ford Toploader 4 speed in my 69 GTO. Cut the shifter so it came up in the factory console location. Looked stock to the untrained eye.

[Stuart]

Mike: I think what some people are having a hard time with is the length of your posts, when they have to scroll and scroll to read through them. If you have a large body of text, another option is to post it as an attachment, just like you would with a photo or image - the board will accept .txt text files as an attachment. Or, you can save it on your computer as a .pdf file and then attach the .pdf file in your post.

That way, if people reading the discussion have interest a particular post, they can click on the text file to read it; if not, they can just continue on down through the rest of the discussion.

[tom s]

What about putting a post in the proper tech forum?Seems like that would make more sense?Tom

[Hesster1977]

The "Myrtle Motors 428."
Pretty cool you could order one of these.
How many were built? Could not find any info on this, but imagine they are rare.

Old thread, but no article:
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=524161

More info:
https://firstgenfirebirds.wordpress....-myrtl-motors/

http://pontiacformula.free.fr/en/royal.php

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Mike: I think what some people are having a hard time with is the length of your posts, when they have to scroll and scroll to read through them. If you have a large body of text, another option is to post it as an attachment, just like you would with a photo or image - the board will accept .txt text files as an attachment. Or, you can save it on your computer as a .pdf file and then attach the .pdf file in your post.

That way, if people reading the discussion have interest a particular post, they can click on the text file to read it; if not, they can just continue on down through the rest of the discussion.

Moderator, please help me repair this post:
Divide post # 255 in half and delete # 253, take the first half of #255 and post it in post # 253, then post the second half # 255 and keep it in # 255 and call it a two-part story. Turn them into attachments and they will fit. I should have done that myself but it was late, sorry.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Hesster1977

The "Myrtle Motors 428."
Pretty cool you could order one of these.
How many were built? Could not find any info on this, but imagine they are rare.

Old thread, but no article:
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=524161

More info:
https://firstgenfirebirds.wordpress....-myrtl-motors/

http://pontiacformula.free.fr/en/royal.php

Hesster1977,
The "Myrtle Motors 428."
Pretty cool you could order one of these.
How many were built? I could not find any info on this, but imagine they are rare.

Mike here, I found some more reading through your recent post:1969 Ram Air V Trans Am












Lance Kramer’s 1969 Ram Air V Trans Am
JUN 24

Posted by Dennis Monckton
Lance Kramer’s 1969 Ram Air V Trans Am

(text from original post back in 97, pics scoured from the web)

The First and Only Ram Air V Trans Am on the WEB!
Special thanks to John Allen from the Goat Finder GTO Monthly Classifieds for sending

me the article and picture. 02/02/97












Lance Kramer’s 1969 Ram Air V Trans Am

Lance bought this car in 1988 in Michigan, apart, with NOS parts included. The photo

is from a show in Omaha, NE taken 2 years ago. He installed the Ram Air Tunnel Port as

The car underwent a 5-year frame-off restoration. The original wide-ratio Muncie 4-

spd., and 3.55s are still in it. He’s been collecting RA V Tunnel Port parts for 15

years. The GOATFINDER GTO CLASSIFIEDS featured this car in the 3/95 issue. Lance also

owns another ’69 T/A w/80K mi. that he used as a reference in restoring this one.

That one is an original, never apart.Lance’s RA V is an example of Pontiac racing and

development at it’s pinnacle of refinement. It has the correct crank, rods, pistons,

NOS cam/lifters, distributor, valvetrain, harmonic balancer, etc. He also has a set

of the SUPER-RARE factory F-body exhaust manifolds (less than a dozen made), but the

car sports headers instead because of the scarcity of his factory Tunnel Port

manifolds. The Block code is “WI” (correct manual tranny version for the F-body), and

he has another RA V waiting for the “right” car, perhaps a JUDGE Convertible. He

admits “it’s just too much motor for the car, but I LOVE it”, and has been a

subscriber of the GOATFINDER for years! He also owns a RA IV Orbit Orange /

Sandlewood ’70 JUDGE!

– John Allen

Ram Air V Info

Q: What is a Ram Air V engine?

A: The Tunnel Port Ram Air V engine had the potential for unseating the top dog

Chevy. Unfortunately, very few of these engines ever reached the public. It was only

briefly offered as a crate engine through Pontiac dealers in the early 70’s.

The Ram Air V could have put Pontiac into the big time at the track. Their Special

Projects Group had developed 3 versions of the Ram Air V by 1968: a 303-cid intended

for use in the SCCA Trans-Am series, a 366-cid intended for NASCAR competition, and a

400-cid for street/strip use. Conservative corporate attitudes and small budgets

killed the 303 version. The 366 version was used in some of the smaller NASCAR

divisions, but never made it to the Grand National circuit. But the 400 version would

be the closest to making it under the hoods of the GTOs and Trans Ams. Although it

never became an official option, people with some inside knowledge could have got a

Ram Air V 400 for $2000 in their 1970 1/2 Trans Am. It’s believed about 200 of these

engines were sold, but many made their way into GTOs and other Pontiacs, as well as

others being delivered by crate. But corporate HQ would ultimately cave in to

safety-conscious legislators and insurance companies. Thus, Ram Air V was deemed

powerful for street use and soon disappeared. The Ram Air 400 was designed with

tunnel port heads, manifolding and a solid lifter cam. While this engine utilizes a

basic 400 Pontiac block, there are some bonus points worth noting.

The main-bearing web areas are beefed, with four bolt main caps and a strengthening

rib down the right side similar to the 455 SD block, also similar are strengthening

ribs in the lifter gallery. A forged steel (SAE 4615) crank was used and was cross-

drilled for superior lube qualities. The rods were a radical new design forged from

SAE 4340 material and specially braced in the beam and cap areas. They tapered from

the small-end to a point almost as wide as the big-end opening and used an aircraft-

style 12-point bolt that passed through the cap and threaded directly into the rod.

For a piston choice, Pontiac went to a TRW forging, similar in design to the one

Chevrolet was using in the 302 (Z-28) Camaro. The pop-up configuration is different

however, for an approximate 11:1 compression ratio. The forgings were of cam-ground

slipper design with a tin-plated exterior. The tin-plateing can be removed, however.

At the top there is a 3/32 moly-coated ring, followed by the conventional Pontiac

setup.

Back then the magic word in performance was tunnel-port as demonstrated by the killer

427 Fords, big-block Chevys and Hemis. Pontiac’s version of this design sported

machined combustion chambers free of any rough areas that might cause hot-spots and

huge, tennis-ball sized ports. The intake ports are slightly oval in shape at the

head manifold area then flow into a circular shape for a direct shot at the center-

line of the pistons. The valves are chrome-plated, hollow-stemmed, tulip-shaped

affairs, measuring 2.19 inches at the intake and 1.77 at the exhaust. They’re super-

light which contributes to the revability of the engine. The pushrods pass directly

through the center of the intake ports similar to the 455 SD, however, instead of the

round tube as on the SD, the Ram Air V head employs a wide, tapered airfoil to direct

air-flow around it. Overall flow was said to be extremely good due to the lack of

low-pressure buildup under the valves.

When it came to the cam the engineers combined the best of two worlds. They chose the

timing specifications of the successful Mark IV Ram Air cam (308 degrees intake

duration, 320 degrees exhaust duration, .520 inch lift at zero lash) but added solid

lifters for faultless super-high-rpm operation. This is extremely important because

of the design of the intake manifold and the huge tunnel ports. This is a *high* rpm

engine.

Pontiac put the old boggy QuadraJet to rest as far as the Ram Air V was concerned in

favor of the 800 CFM Holley. You have to come off the line hard as the engine doesn’t

start to make power until 4000 rpm and the manifold is tuned for max power from 5000

rpm and up. I have seen pictures of two styles of cast-iron exhaust headers with the

spread-port R.A. V pattern. One design is similar to the Ram Air III D-Port manifolds

and the other is a “shorty” version with heat shields.

There were never any specific horsepower and torque output figures available on the

R.A. V or the 303 version (designed by Traco). Speculation was 1.15 HP per cubic inch

on the Mark V in the dyno room which should work out to something like 375 to 390

advertised horsepower. Other published claims put the 303 SCCA version up at 430 hp,

the 366 NASCAR version at 585 hp, and the 400 street version as high as 500 hp. No

one knows for sure. But while seeing such a beast with a Ram Air V was, and is now

even more so, a rare sight – it wasn’t difficult to get these cars into the 12-second

range with some simple tricks and slicks.

Additional info excerpted from the F-Body FAQ maintained by John Wolf

(jwolf@morgan.com)

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

URL, Ram Air V:


https://firstgenfirebirds.wordpress....ir-v-trans-am/








Mike found this in that area also:

Myrtle Motors converted into a 1968 firebird










Myrtle Motors converted a 1968 firebird and was also in the business of "tweaking" to

please the customers PONTIAC, like Royal Pontiac. Although they never attracted the

attention as much as Royal Pontiac. The amendments made this Myrtle Firebird powered

by a 428ci were almost identical to the famous Royal Bobcat kit (level 2). It had the

Ram Air and F70-14 tires. It was capable of running the 1/4mile in 13.90sec despite a

significant tire spin. There were emblems "428" on the hood, but for some reason also

a symbol 400 on the trunk lid! An oversight?



428ci engine, TH-400, 3.90 posi-Traction and 12.55@110 mph.

Acceleration: 0-30 mph : 3.0 sec, 0-60 mph : 4.9 sec.



The price varies from 2781$ to 5149.74$. Myrtle also modified the GTO.

Ace Wilson Royal Pontiac, based in Royal Oak Michigan, carried the performance banner

for Pontiac. It all began with Pontiac adman Jim Wangers, proposed the idea of

dealer-supported performance programs. Pontiac management would allow only one dealer

to be a guinea pig, Royal Pontiac was chosen because of convenience. With factory

support, Royal Pontiac successfully campaigned a 1959 Catalina in NHRA drag racing and

then triumphed on Super Duty Monday, Labor Day in 1960, when Super Duty Pontiacs won

three major competition events in three different locations. Sales of performance

cars and parts escalated from there and Royal Pontiac created the Royal Racing Team

for their fans which quickly grew to 55,000 members in just two years. In 1965, Royal

mechanics developed the idea of sealing the Tri-Power's three air cleaners in a "pan"

that that sandwiched a large foam gasket against the underside of an opened-up hood

scoop. This package became an over-the-counter dealer option from Pontiac in 1965 and

debuted as Pontiac's full force Ram Air engine option in February 1966. Along with

parts, Royal also offered conversion kits. Early examples included a Paxton-

supercharged "Royal Grand Prix" in 1962 (one built) and a hopped-up four cylinder

"Tempest Tiger." Then came the first "Royal Bobcat," a big Catalina with all of

Pontiac's hottest parts, including a Tri-Power 421, various tuning tricks and tweaks,

distinctive paint, and Bobcat identification (made from the "CAT" letters from the

Catalina and two "B"s and the "O" from Bonneville. Royal became the leader in

modified Pontiac's and Wangers continued to turn to Royal for all cars prepped for

races or the press (including the infamous GTO vs. GTO Motor Trend car - which, by

the way, had a 421). At its peak, Royal was selling over 1,000 Bobcat conversions a

year, including GTOs, big 2+2s, Bonneville's, Grand Prix's, and Firebirds. In 1968,

Royal started dropping in 428 engines into GTOs and Firebirds, against GM rules, but

similar to the shenanigans performed by Don Yanko and others. But in 1969, Ace Wilson

decided he had enough and sold his Royal Racing Team to Leader Automotive, run by

John DeLorean's brother George. In 1974, Wilson sold his dealership to pursue land

development deal and the Royal era came to an end.



428 Firebird Road Test From Popular Hot Rod, September, 1968 428ci Firebirds were

available as dealer-installed options in two places…one in the Midwest – at Royal

Pontiac (home of the Bobcat Kit), and the other on the East coast – at Myrtle Motors.

Myrtle built 428 Firebirds and GTOs. They sold Tiger super tune kits, traction kits,

suspension goodies and anything else in the way of speed equipment to make Pontiacs

haul tail. Myrtle Motors allowed anyone to walk in off the street and buy a custom 428

Firebird–tailored to your own specs…adding headers, a Tiger kit, suspension stuff, or

even a full blueprinted engine and suspension–in other words, an all-out race car.

The test Firebird was painted bright red and had two racing stripes across the

functional hood scoops over the top and down the trunk right to the rear spoiler. The

stripes and spoilers are on the Myrtlee option list. The engine was a not-so-stock ’68

428 H.O. with a few goodies added. Out of the crate, this engine is rated at a strong

390 hp at 5100 rpm and 465 lbs./ft. torque at 3400 rpm. Stock camshaft specs are 288

degrees intake duration and 302 degrees exhaust duration. But we’ve just begun to

fight. Now the mind-seizing modifications have come in. First of all, take out the stock

cam and stuff in a Ram Air stick with 301 degrees of intake duration and 313 of

exhaust duration (late conversion will have the late-stage II cam). Next, add the

heads from a Ram Air 400 engine. These have good valves that won’t burn up after a

week of fast running; And a Ram Air induction kit sitting right on top of the engine

wouldn’t hurt anything. Now, we put the icing on the cake, add the Myrtle Motors Stage

I Tiger kit consisting of cc’d heads to equalize the combustion chambers; special

gaskets that block the heat risers and pack more fuel/air charge into the cylinders;

special thin head gaskets to raise the 10.75-to-1 compression ratio to about 11.50-

to-1; a reworked distributor with a fast advance curve that has the advance all

packed in by the time the tach hits two grand; bigger jets for the Quadrajet four-

barrel carb; and Isky Poly-Locks on the rockers so that the nuts hold them

adjustment when they’re backed off to the limit of their travel. The first blast down

the strip smoked the tires so badly we couldn’t even see the starting line through

the rear-view mirror. The big inches hauled the Firebird around like a VW. Wesch was

right when he said the car was an animal – it did take some getting used to. Making

The car was very enjoyable to drive with a list of standard factory options that perfectly

complemented the 428 big ones under the hood. Things like power steering, power disc

brakes, heavy-duty suspension package, 3.90 rear axle ratio with Safe-T-Track limited

slip differential, and swing-shifted Turbo Hydra-Matic transmission all made life

behind the wheel quite bearable. The suspension, especially, and the automatic

transmission made themselves felt all through the test. The suspension consisted of

higher rate front coil and multi-leaf rear springs, thicker anti-sway bar up front,

and big shocks all around. It kept the Bird on course at all times and provided a

very firm, controlled ride. Under hard cornering conditions, the big Bird went into a

curve with quite a bit of understeer. But with so much torque on tap, it was no

problem to slip the console-mounted control stick of the Turbo down one notch, floor

the throttle, and bring out the back end as little or as much as we wanted. After a

while, we felt like Dan Gurney at Riverside. It was so easy to make wild cornering

moves with the Firebird that we almost thought we were real pro. Never once did the

Bird fail to forgive us even if we went in over our heads. All we had to do was back

off the throttle, and the rear end would tuck back in. Helping out matters in the

handling department was a neat set of Goodyear Speedway Wide Tread tires, size F70-

14, mounted on factory optional Rally II wheels with six-inch rims. They’re great as

all-around street tires and held up well during our handling tests. But forget it for

the acceleration blasts. The Wide Treads just didn’t make it. They just couldn’t hold

down the big inches under the hood. We made a few runs with the street tires but

couldn’t do any better than a 13.90 ET. This was achieved by simply driving off the

line with no torque loading of the transmission. We couldn’t really get into it until

We were more than 100 feet out. Things looked keener when we switched to a set of M&H

8.50 X 14 cheaters. The tires had seven-inch-wide treads and a nice soft B-140 rubber

compound. They wrinkled up nicely coming off, and we were able to torque-load the

Turbo up to stall speed and mash it when the light turned green. Light wheelspin

turned into lots of traction, and we recorded times of 13.40, 13.10, 12.85, and

Finally, 12.55. Miles per hour always stayed around 110, and it was just a matter of

finding the right off-the-line technique. Granted these times are not the greatest

ever turned by a Pontiac. But they’re the best we ever heard of for an Un blueprinted

Pontiac. If you let the Turbo shift for itself with the stick in Drive, it shrieks

into the next gear at 5400 rpm, right at the power peak. Being old four-speed buffs

At heart, we had a great time bombing-off manual shifts with the auto. We could take

the Bird up to six grand, move the stick a notch, the wheels would spin for about 10

feet, and we’d be in the next gear. No muss, no fuss, just right now shifting.

Another thing we wouldn’t be without on a car like this is the front disc/rear drum

braking system. We ran 10 panic stops in a row, and we were able to stop every time

quickly and safely with no swerve or fade. He’ll convince you that the Bird’s the

word! List Price (base) $2,781.00 Price as tested (list – includes 428 conversion)

$5,149.74 Weight 3,300 pounds 0 to 30 mph – 3.0 seconds 0 to 60 mph – 4.9 seconds

Standing start, 1/4 mile 12.55 seconds Miles per hour, 1/4-mile 110 mph Economy 6 –

13 mpg.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes Reply;
I found this Information while going through Hesster1977 Posts URL's

Kenny G’s 1969 Trans Am Fact & Fiction Page











Kenny G’s 1969 Trans Am Fact & Fiction Page
JUL 6

Posted by dennismonckton
Kenny G’s 1969 Trans Am Fact & Fiction Page


http://www.classicalpontiac.com/members/2/4.html

(Updated 12/09/06) Once being the owner of a 1969 Trans Am, and hearing lots of un-

truths about the car, I thought on my last page I would add a FACTS & FICTIONcolumn

about these rare cars. If you have any questions concerning these cars, feel free to

e-mail me and I will try to help you out. (I will add more as I have time and more

items come to mind).

FACT: : The Trans Am option included the following as standard equipment:
RA III engine (includes upper and lower RA pans, cast iron long branch exhaust

manifolds)
3 speed HD manual transmission
3.55:1 Saft-T-Track 10 bolt differential
1.0″ front sway bar
Chrome valve covers and oil filler cap
Power front disc brakes
Special, functional, dual scooped hood (steel) with removable scoop inserts

(fiberglass)
Front fender mounted functional air extractors (fiberglass)
Rear wing pedestals mount spoiler (fiberglass)
Front Spoiler (plastic)
HD shocks
HD springs
Special Tyrol Blue striped Cameo White paint (over hood, roof & deck lid, including

tail lamp panel)
Power steering (with HD coolant line)
Quick ratio steering box (2.5 turns lock to lock)
“TRANS AM” identification decals on front fenders and rear spoiler
Blacked out grills (egg crate section only)
Simulated wood steering wheel (some later cars built after 9/69came with the padded

Formula wheel with the one year only “wings down” Firebird cap.

FACT: The ’69 Trans Am was introduced to the press on December 8th, 1968 at Riverside

Raceway in Riverside, CA. One of the cars given to the press to test was the pre

production T/A that was painted Pallidium Silver (no stripes). Look closely at the

pictures of the silver T/A and you will notice the hood and air extractors have very

sharp, hard lines, more in line with the original design sketches. The March 1969

issue of Hot Rod Magazine stated the hood on this silver car was fiberglass. Note:

The silver T/A was also a RA IV car. (source for the above date was Jim Wangers‘ book

Glory Days)

FACT: Pontiac made a total of 697 ’69 Trans Ams (coupes and convertibles)

FACT: 8 of those were convertibles, 689 were coupes. (As a side note that really has

nothing to do with this, there was also a ’69 Firebird convertible used on the

television program “I Dream Of Genie” that had what appeared to be a variation of the

’69 T/A hood, side air extractors mounted on the quarter panels and a T/A style rear

spoiler. The car was bright green. I don’t believe this to be a real T/A but found it

interesting that PMD would send out a Firebird mocked up similar to a T/A for a TV

show. Maybe they didn’t. Maybe it was customized elsewhere.).

FACT: All 8 convertibles were RA III cars.

FACT: Of the 8 convertibles, 4 were automatics, and 4 were manuals transmission cars.

(Side Note: It has been documented that of the 8 convertible Trans Ams made, 7 are

known to exist, most of those in good condition. The 8th is still a mystery. While I

have read that the 8th has been located many different times, that seems to just be a

rumor at this point. There was a blurb in Pontiac Enthusiast Magazine several years

ago that they believed they had found this 8th convertible T/A in Western Canada and

that they’d have more info at a later date. However, I have never heard any more

about that. So until the 8th shows up in pictures somewhere and is proved documented

to be the 8th, I would assume the location of the 8th is still unknown.)

FICTION: The 8 convertible T/As were built only for GM executives and not sold to the

general public. (This statement is completely untrue. There is no reason that anyone

could not order a convertible T/A. From listening to discussions with people such as

John Sawruck (A Pontiac Engineer), “Higher Ups” at GM received no special treatments

when it came to having special cars built for them).

FACT: Trans Ams were built at two different assembly plants: Norwood, Ohio (N) and

Van Nuys, California (L) (coded L for Los Angeles). The number of Trans Ams built by

each assembly plant and block code are as follows:
NORWOOD:
WQ: 506 (14 3-speeds, 492 4-speeds, including 4 convertibles)
YW: 117 ( including 4 convertibles)
WH: 45
XN: 9
VAN NUYS:
WQ: 14 (1 3-speed, 13 4-speeds)
YW: 5
WH: 1
(information from the book “Pontiac Muscle Car Performance, 1955-1979, by Pete

McCarthy)

FACT: The original design for the Trans Am was actually proposed by the famous auto

customizer, Gene Winfield. Working with artist Harry B. Bradley, they approached

Pontiac in the fall of 1967 with sketches (I hope to have these sketches posted here

soon). Since he consulted for the model company AMT, Winnfield knew 18 months ahead

of time what the 1969 Firebirds would look like. He and Bradley proposed the hood,

scoops, air extractors and deck lid spoiler that pretty much ended up on the Trans Am

(other than a few minor alterations). Winfield called his car the “Can Am” (is this

where Pontiac later got the name Can Am from?) and his proposed color scheme was

chartreuse and gold instead of white and blue. All of the items Winfield and Bradley

proposed were bolt-on and functional. (Info from the book The Fabulous Firebird by

Michael Lamm)

FACT: Like the ’64 – ’65 & ’72 – ’74 GTOs, The Trans Am was just a option for 1969 on

the Firebird line. So, even though a car may check out to be a real ’69 Trans Am,

there will be nothing in the VIN number to separate it from a basic Firebird, nor

will the title say Trans Am, it will simply be listed as Firebird. This is correct.

FICTION: There is no way to be sure if car is really a factory T/A or just a clone.

(While the best way to tell if a T/A is a real T/A or not is to send the VIN # to

Pontiac Historical Services for verification, there is a few quick things to look at

if you’re in a hurry to make a verification. The easiest is to check the firewall

data plate for a rear spoiler code, usually “D80” or a variation of that code (D80 is

a spoiler code for many GM cars, not just the T/A). Since the ’69 T/A was the only

first generation Firebird to leave the factory with a rear spoiler, it will also be

the only Firebird to receive a rear spoiler code. You will never see a “D80” code on

a non ‘69 T/A. You should also look for the paint code to be 50-50 (in most cases;

see note below). If the plate has a paint code for say red paint, this is a good

tip-off that the car is not a real T/A).
NOTE: Keep in mind though 50-50 is upper and lower paint codes and there were a few

T/As built with vinyl tops so you might get a code that is not 50-50. A convertible

Trans Am would also not be coded 50-50 because the upper code would be the top color.

If you need help to determine if a car is a real T/A or not, please email me and I’ll

be happy to help you out. you can email me at firstyearta@yahoo.com

FICTION: You could order a ’69 T/A in blue with white stripes (’69 T/As were ALL

white with blue stripes). (SIDE NOTE: ‘69 Trans Ams were painted Cameo White. In many

places I have seen the ‘69 T/A as being referred to as Polar While. Polar White is

only correct for the 1970 Trans Am. Cameo White is more of an antique white as

opposed to the much brighter shade that Polar White is. Cameo white is code 50 and

will interchange with PPG code 2058).

FACT: The upper section of the rear tail lamp panel was painted the same color blue

as the stripes were on all ’69 Trans Ams (sometimes the stripes will look a different

color, this is due to how the light hits the metallic in the blue paint. A perfect

example of this can be seen on the picture I have posted at the bottom of the next

page, page 5). (SIDE NOTE: I have been provided with information from a factory

Service Bulletin # 546321 sheet 2, page 35w-2.2 dated 2/24/69 that the correct color

for the stripes on 1969 Trans Ams is Tyrol Blue, code. 867-98755 or Fisher wa-3680

code (NOTE: this is not a 1969 color but rather a 1967 color). This information was

provided by Classical Pontiac Member 59, Tboy in Q&A post #274473. In the past I have

stated that 1970 Lucern Blue was a decent match for the stripes (though maybe a shade

too dark). I still believe this to be true (there was even a caption in an old issue

of Muscle Car Cassics magazine on documenting a ’69 T/A that stated the correct color

for the stripes was Lucern Blue), however it appears that there is now documented

proof as to what the ‘69 color was really called.

FICTION: Some ‘69 TAs came with red T/A decals (not so, only the PRE-PRODUCTION car

used in the magazine ads has red decals. This is a myth supported by the Book

“Pontiac Trans-Am 1969-1973 photofacts, in the captioned photo at the bottom of page

22).

FICTION: All ’69 T/As came standard with Rally II wheels (Rally II wheels were an

option on the T/A as they were on all ’69 Firebirds. However, almost every ’69 T/A

was ordered with them. They were an option and not part of the T/A package).

FACT: A column shift automatic could be ordered on a ’69 T/A (as odd as this seems to

me, and why any one would want one I don’t know, it was possible as I almost bought a

‘69 Trans Am optioned this way. The car looks funny with no console I think).

FICTION: ’69 T/As came from the factory with rear sway bars (another one of those

rumors you read that are not true).

FACT: The ’69 T/A did come with a larger than normal front sway bar, measuring 1

inch.

FACT: Even though the T/A is a 400 engine car, ’69 T/As did not receive the 400 grill

trim.

FACT: Nor did they receive the “400” deck lid emblem or the “FIREBIRD” front fender

emblems.

FICTION: The wood steering wheel was the only steering wheel for the ’69 T/A. (In

September of ’69, very late in production, the formula wheel became available as an

option. The wheel carried the one year only horn cap with the first generation style

‘wings down’ bird in the center. Had production not ran late that year, creating so

called 1969 1/2 cars, the Formula wheel would have debuted on the second generation

Trans Am. I have added a picture of the very rare one year only “wings down” cap that

came on the late ’69 Trans Ams. You can find a link to this picture on page 6. If you

have any problem viewing the picture, email me and I can email the picture to you.

I have also now been provided with copies of the auctual document that explain the

introduction of the Formula steering wheel to the ’69 Trans Am. This can be viewed

on-line but you will need an Adobe Reader to view it. The document can be viewed HERE

(SIDE NOTE: While it was probably just a fluke, my ’69 T/A came out of the factory

with just the blue plastic wheel. And I have also had contact with two other ‘69 T/A

owners who’s T/As also came this way. Has anyone else ever seen a ’69 T/A with the

standard wheel originally)?

FACT: 6 of the manual transmission cars built at the Norwood, Ohio plant left the

factory with vinyl tops. 4 in dark blue, 2 in black.

FICTION: Some cars came with the word TRANS AM or FIREBIRD etched in the side window

glass (this is 100 percent untrue, another myth read in some books)

FACT: All ’69 T/As are Ram Air cars. There were no T/As with the base 400. All will

have functional Ram Air. Engine/Trans production figures are as follows:
Coupe, RA III, automatic transmission: 114<
Coupe, RA III, manual transmission: 520
Coupe. RA IV, automatic transmission: 9
Coupe, RA IV, manual transmission: 46
Convertible, RA III, automatic transmission, 4
Convertible, RA III, manual transmission, 4
Convertible, RA IV, automatic transmission, 0
Convertible, RA IV, manual transmission, 0
As you see the rarest of the ‘69 Trans Ams coupes was the RA IV coupe with automatic

transmission. (Note, the silver proto-type T/A was a RA IV, auto, coupe too, but

being a preproduction car, it would not be one of these 4 rare cars…. If only we knew

where the silver car was today.)

FICTION: The standard T/A gear box was the Muncie 4 speed. (not true. T/As came

standard with the M-13 Heavy Duty 3 speed. HOWEVER, if you optioned in a RA IV

engine, and wished a manual transmission, the Muncie M21 close ratio 4 speed became a

mandatory option).

FICTION: Other engines such as the 350 H.O. or even the 303 CID were available in the

‘69 Trans Am. (This is yet another published myth and is completely untrue. This one

can be read in the October 1990 issue of Guide To Muscle Cars on page 21). It was

also reported as early as the March 1969 issue of Hot Rod magazine that the 303 would

become available in the production cars, but it was never to be. While Pontiac may

have had it in the works, it never became available in production cars (the 303 was

available for a short time over the parts counter only).

FICTION: A ‘through the grill’ RA option was available (While the idea was on the

design table, the T/A (nor any Firebird) was never produced with this style Ram Air.

You can see this design idea on page 45 of the book The Fabulous Firebird).

FICTION: ’69 T/A have a under dash bracket to ‘open’ the Ram Air. (While the ’69 RA

400 Firebird cars have this, the ’69 T/As do not. This published myth can be read on

page 113 and 45 of the Fabulous Firebird).

FACT: While the hood tach was available as a dealer installed option, these were not

offered from the factory, mostly I believe due to lack of room to the left of the

large T/A scoops. (SIDE NOTE: A hood tach will fit to the side of the scoop but one

of the mounting bolts will actually be under the hood hinge making it necessary to

remove the hood from the hinge for installation.

FACT: The ’69 T/A hood is steel with fiberglass scoop inserts. Factory RA ‘tunnels’

are made of plastic. Factory RA pans, upper and lower, along with the air cleaner

retainer and carb screen were all steel.

FACT: Side air extractors are functional, with holes cut behind them in the fenders

(to allow hot air to escape from the engine compartment), and they are made of

fiberglass. (note: Many publications refer to the air extractors as “simulated”. The

do have 2 holes behind each extractor that actually let hot air escape from the

engine compartment so they truthfully are functional and NOT just simulated.

FACT: The rear spoiler is fiberglass also. Original spoilers have a distinct lines

where the pedestals mate to the ‘wing’. (SIDE NOTE1: This is a good way to tell a

reproduction spoiler from an original. But beware, some reproductions have these

lines.) (SIDE NOTE 2: The pedestals run right in the middle of each stripe. Even

though the stripes are not painted over the spoiler, the pedestals were painted blue

up to the bottom of the spoiler.

FACT: There were only two different magazine ads for the ’69 Trans Am. Both were

similar, but one included pictures of some of the options that could be ordered,

while the other ad did not. The ad with out the options can be found on the inside

front cover of the May 1969 issue of Car and Driver (it has a red Maverick on cover)

and the ad showing options can be found on pages 90 & 91 of the June 1969 issue of

Road & Track. You can view these ads on-line at the 1969 Trans Am registry by

clicking HERE
(SIDE NOTE: Notice that in the ad showing the Formula wheel, notice that the bottom

spoke of that wheel has three holes. The following was posted by Steve Chin on the

Classical Pontiac Q&A board, post # 10471 in the archive: “The Formula wheel was an

option on the ’69 Trans Am. The real Formula wheel was not ready at the time of the

press photo shoot, so they substituted a Momo Prototipo steering wheel for the

Formula wheel (looks very similar, except it’s really leather and the vertical spoke

has three holes in it and no leather wrap near the rim)”.

FACT: The car used in the ads used a pre-production hood. You can tell this by

noticing that the hood does not have removable scoops (my guess is it’s probably

fiberglass, but that is a guess).

FACT: Pontiac referred to the car in the ads as “Pontiacs New Pony Express”

FACT: Some early articles showing the silver T/A can be seen in the March, 1969 issue

of Car Craft, the April 1969 issue of Car Life and the June 1969 issue of Motor

Trend. Another very early article showing what appears to be the same car used in

magazine advertisements can be seen in the April 1969 issue of Sports Car Graphic

(note that the car in the article appears to have the hood with non-removable scoops,

has stripes over the rear spoiler, has RAM AIR decals in the middle of the scoops,

has the FIREBIRD fender emblems and has the 400 trunk lid emblem.

FACT: The ’69 Trans Am was never shown in any of the 1969 factory Pontiac or GM

brochures that were distributed to the public. There was however a flyer type insert

was made available for the dealers to insert in there showroom albums. I have

recently been sent a scan of this insert page along with a short letter announcing

the introduction of the T/A and where to insert the page into the dealer brochure. I

have posted both of these on page 6. If you have any trouble opening the pictures,

email me and I can send them to you. A HUGE THANKS goes out to Mike Noun for

providing me with these.

FICTION: ’69 Trans Ams have unique rear side marker lamps. (This is another myth as

read in the book “Firebird, Pure Excitement From Pontiac” Page 24. All ’69 Firebirds

and T/As have the same marker lamp).

FACT: While not mentioned much, ’69 Trans Ams actually did in fact come from the

factory with a front spoiler (more than just the 90 degree steel lip found on the

metal baffle on 400 and a/c cars). This spoiler was made from a flat piece of

plastic, spanning the width of the front valance and was mounted to the lip of the

lower baffle found on 400 and a/c cars. There is an excellent picture of one of these

spoilers seen in the book mentioned above (Firebird, Pure Excitement…) also on page

24.

FICTION: The headlamp surrounds are made of Endura material like the GTO bumpers (not

so… these are actually made just from plastic and break quite easily. They do however

have rubber cushions that mount behind them to protect them and the fenders).

FACT: The following are various codes that apply to the 1969 Trans Am:

Engine block codes:
(this code will be a stamped code and located on the passenger side of the engine

block directly below the head.)
NOTE: W codes denote manual transmissions, while X & Y coded denote auto

transmissions.
RA III, Auto trans: YW = 335hp
RA III, Manual trans: WQ = 335hp
RA IV, Auto trans: XN = 345hp
RA IV, Manual trans: WH = 345 hp

Engine block casting codes:
(this code will be cast as part of the engine block. This code can be found on the

passenger side top of the block just behind the passenger side cylinder bank.
RA III: 9790071
RA IV: 9792506

Cylinder head codes:
(This code will be cast as part of the head. RA III codes will be located on top of

the center exhaust port on each cylinder head. RA IV codes will be located on top of

the end exhaust ports, #1 & #8. This code is also a shortened version of the full

casting number, note the full number show).
RA III, Auto trans: 16 or 62 (full number 9791216, 9791562), 2.11/1.77 valves, 72CC
RA III, Manual trans: 48 (full number 9795048) 2.11/1.77 valves, 72CC
RA IV, all transmissions: 722 (full number 9796722) 2.11/1.77 valves, 71CC

Exhaust manifold codes:
(This code will be cast as part of the manifold. The code will be found on the front

side of each manifold near the center)
RA III:
Right: 9797073
Left: 9779495
RA IV:
Right: 9797074
Left: 9797038

Intake Manifold codes:
(This code will be cast as part of the intake manifold. Generally found just to the

side of the water neck)
RA III: 9794234 (cast iron)
RA IV: 9796614 (aluminum)

Carburetor codes:
(This code will be stamped into the side of the carb. vertically)
RA III, Auto trans: 7028270
RA III, Manual trans: 7028273
RA IV, Auto trans: 7029270
RA IV, Manual trans: 7029273

Distributor Codes:
(This code will be stamped into the wide portion of the distributor body)
RA III, Auto trans: 1111946
RA III, Manual trans: 1111952
RA IV, all transmissions: 1111941

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by tom s

What about putting a post in the proper tech forum? Seems like that would make more sense? Tom

Mikes Reply:
This was the error message, had nothing to do with how I posted the Thread.

No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator.

Turns out that I was moved back to a Thread that I had closed, why, I am just going with it...

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike, here are a few more photos:

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Moderator, please help me repair this post:
Divide post # 255 in half and delete # 253, take the first half of #255 and post it in post # 253, then post the second half # 255 and keep it in # 255 and call it a two-part story. Turn them into attachments and they will fit. I should have done that myself but it was late, sorry.

I cleaned up your posts 253 and 255, but from now on please either make your posts smaller or else put the text in an attachment.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

In 1965, Royal mechanics developed the idea of sealing the Tri-Power's three air cleaners in a "pan"

that that sandwiched a large foam gasket against the underside of an opened-up hood

scoop. This package became an over-the-counter dealer option from Pontiac in 1965 and

debuted as Pontiac's full force Ram Air engine option in February 1966.

Schornak did the work on the '64 car, but the '65 setup came out of PMD engineering Experimental Metal shop.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

…..

My dad is driving Pete Seaton's car in the far lane.

Wangers won (naturally).

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Then came the first "Royal Bobcat," a big Catalina with all of

Pontiac's hottest parts, including a Tri-Power 421, various tuning tricks and tweaks,

distinctive paint, and Bobcat identification (made from the "CAT" letters from the

Catalina and two "B"s and the "O" from Bonneville.

…..