[larry davis]

After eliminating all other possibilities, I tore down the rear driveline: scattershield, clutch assy, flywhhel, trans, etc...
Used the ultraviolet light w/ the oil having been stained during last runtime, when it was obviously leaking w/ the evac pump.
Leak is at the parting line of the rear main cap, both sides. No other leak(s) is/are present.
Looks like it'll have to come out again. COME ON MARK & WADE? Whassup w/ that?
I'm really disappointed.



SECOND AMENDMENT: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY!

[larry davis]

After eliminating all other possibilities, I tore down the rear driveline: scattershield, clutch assy, flywhhel, trans, etc...
Used the ultraviolet light w/ the oil having been stained during last runtime, when it was obviously leaking w/ the evac pump.
Leak is at the parting line of the rear main cap, both sides. No other leak(s) is/are present.
Looks like it'll have to come out again. COME ON MARK & WADE? Whassup w/ that?
I'm really disappointed.



SECOND AMENDMENT: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY!

[SLOW 77]

I haven't seen a BOP seal in person, but I have the Caddy seal in mine with 11K of street/strip miles on mine with no Evac system and it doesn't leak to this day, now the oilpan that is another story Supposedly the Caddy seals leak easy, I don't think so but either way it is the same type seal.

Suggestion, I filled the whole grove up with red ATV and let it sit for 5-10 mins; a liberal amount, then mounted the seal in the main cap, and the other in the block. Both where done the same way, basically silicone is surrounding the seal lightly everywhere, no oil to creep by the seal. I also did not line my two seals up with the main cap, I cocked them at a little different angle, not at 9 and 3 o'clock, more like 10 and 4 o'clock. I heard this was an old trick.

After sitting 24 hrs, I then put a small amount of ATV on the seal where they hit and assembled it. I did lube the lips of the seal with grease and it has been A-OK. Hope that helps.

And before I did all of this I did a custom fit of the seal on the crank and filed it for the right fit.

[Wade Congdon]

Larry,

When you say its at the parting line, do you mean at the crank or along the cap to block surface? There is obviously something not right here. When you get it apart contact us and we can go over some measurements.

Wade

Wade Congdon
BOP Engineering
Hi-Performance Specialty Parts for Buick, Olds, and Pontiac
www.bopengineering.com

[tempest455]

Larry, old tip I came across from Jim Hand:

Jim indicated this was an old Smokey Yunick trick. When you think the engine is ready to run, install about 3 quarts oil, prime thoroughly, and then stand the block on its rear with the crank vertical. If it doesn't leak overnight, it is ready to install.

Saves mucho time before installing the motor!

Tempest455
http://www.wauknet.com/douthitt/

[Larry Navarro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I also did not line my two seals up with the main cap, I cocked them at a little different angle, not at 9 and 3 o'clock, more like 10 and 4 o'clock. I heard this was an old trick. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly what i did on a caddy seal years ago on my old HO motor.
Never leaked a bit.

1973 SD455 T/A
1979 SE474 T/A
http://community.webshots.com/album/16587603rOyvmFCiHs

[thirdgen455]

We installed our first BOP seal in a 400 we built for a 64 cat, did just like slow77 said not a leak at all, it's a friend of mines daily driver. In my TA I used the BOP seal in my 455 and it works great, intsalled the same way.

[Ken -Ace- Brewer]

I am also having a problem! I have installed dozens of these without a problem.Not 1 leak. Now with this one motor it just won't seal! I have already replaced it 3 times. Put it on my dyno and let it idles for at least 30 mins with no leak, then when I go for a power pull I get a leak. Then after that it leaks at idle! Very frustrating!
I am gonna do it once more then I give up! Should i maybe stagger it like a small block chevy???
Be Cool,

ACE-P.P.R.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Ken, this is Ken. I agree, installed quite a few and no problems. But that one or so that gets away can be a buiness profit & time killer.

Especially since I had installed "hundreds" of Chevy and Ford factory seals without a problem
Not trashing the seal as it's intent and idea is great. But issues like this can hurt a business.

You take the Extra time to make sure things are right, over and above what you need to do to install a regular replacement seal in other engines and you get that one or so that will make a lesser man cry.

Like others I have installed over a hundred of these things, but so far have documented work order issues with 3 since the seal has come out.
2 I replaced and the issues disappeared.
Currently waiting on what the customer wants to do with his deal as he is about 4 hrs away.

The trouble a business faces is..... I had this engine built and it runs great, but the freakin thing is leaking oil all under my restored ride. I paid good money to have XXXX build this engine. etc, etc, etc.
Sorta like the boat Larry is in with his builder and his issues.

Well, I'm done venting and whining. Good luck Ken.

************************************************** ***************************

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.


http://PontiacDude.cc

[Ken -Ace- Brewer]

Thanx Ken! Do you ever stagger them like a small block??
Be Cool,

ACE-P.P.R.

[Ray Cox]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ken Brewer:
I am also having a problem! I have installed dozens of these without a problem.Not 1 leak. Now with this one motor it just won't seal! I have already replaced it 3 times. Put it on my dyno and let it idles for at least 30 mins with no leak, then when I go for a power pull I get a leak. Then after that it leaks at idle! Very frustrating!
I am gonna do it once more then I give up! Should i maybe stagger it like a small block chevy???
Be Cool,

ACE-P.P.R.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

this is just an oppinion, but if you have replaced it 13 times the problem is somewhere else. thats providing your not using the same seal all 13 times which I assume your not. it would have to be in the block or crank at that point. I would add instalation error, but since you said you have installed so many others with no leaks its obviously not installed wrong

T-Shirts For Sale "Dude Free In 2003"
OLD COMBO 8.90 @157 mph 3424 LBS. 77 Trans Am All Steel, on 10" tires
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[tikiklubracing]

I don't see anyone talking about the rope seal oil holes. They need to be siliconed too, and the REAR crank oil groves repolished for viton. HTH

"Somebody sell me a 78 Catalina grille, please",15 yrs in NHRA tech ret. 413 rpm 4150 3.73 hoosiers 13.54 4050# Winter Sucks www.nhra.com www.ihra.com

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Tiki That's a given.

Ken. I used to stagger them in the begining. But haven't on the last dozen or so. Won't hurt. Just got to bring it out a 1/8" os so so it doesn't bend.

Ken, Tell me if you are experiencing more grinding now then with the seal from a year or so ago.
I seem to notice more protrusion above the deck on the 3.25 seals lately. Seems I have to do more grinding then years gone past.

Also makes a lot of work trying to control the cut from across the reinforced rib area outward to the lip edge. Which if not cut straight "will" cause leakage.


No Ray it's not the re-use the same deal over and over. It's not my first rodeo with rear main seals. LOL.

I should have a page on my site within two weeks on the BOP seal installation (What I feel should be done) with pics on what you need to do and look at when fitting the seal in the Pontiac 400 and 455 block.
I have taken dozens of pics, but really hard to show definition in the mounting areas with the two caps split and torque to see.

************************************************** ***************************

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.


http://PontiacDude.cc

[larry davis]

As anal & meticulous as I am w/ assembly, there is no reason for this second seal to leak.
The first one was obviously done inncorrect form the shop that did the shortblock. They were even apprehensive about using the seal when I gave it too them.
But, again, no plausible reson for the second one to leak????
#3 will be going in this week.



SECOND AMENDMENT: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY!

[Ken -Ace- Brewer]

Yes Ken they do take more grinding than the last batches! That kinda worries me!
13 times!!! I never said 13, I said 3 times!
Rope seal holes?!! As Ken said "That is a given!" I do this for a living and this is the first one to leak! Never had one leak with these seals!
I am completly disassembling and have the crank checked! And I will get a hold of Wade for some block measurements! I am under the asumption now that it is the crank or block. More so the crank as the customer bought a full assembly from an "outside " source!
Be Cool,

ACE-P.P.R.

[Rob]

I used to stagger too, but consider it a waste of time now. Little nervous, just put a 400 seal in and hearing the leakers.

Did you guys have aftermarket cranks? Would like to know the reason for your leakers. I install the cap and seal with no crank checking the fit first. maybe we need to start mic-ing the seal area and have a tolerance number.

-Rob

[rompn63]

I never had any problems with the old ropes but I was swayed by the promise of more horsepower. I tried using BOP seal three times in my IA block with a Crower crank with 3 1/4 mains. The first had a slight leak but I lived with it till the end of the year. Pulled the crank and installed the second one using procedures found on this site. The leak was still there but better untill I put Mobil 1 in then the flood gates opened. Pulled the engine and crank again. Started to install the 3rd seal then said screw this seal and tossed it into the trash. Put a old used rope seal in and no leaks.
"If it aint broke don't fix it".

[J Brady]

We fought this same problem last year with our IA block. Found that it was caused by crankcase preasure. We had been using Total Seal rings and It would preasurize the motor. Tried a vacume pump and that didn't help. Replaced the total seals with Speed pro file fits and never had another leak. we hadused Total seal for years without a problem but these were new with the toal seal ring at the top. I don't no if that had anything to do with it but Speed pro's are half the price and no problems.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Jim, I don't see how crankcase pressure, that the rings would control, would blow past the seal any more then normal because the seal is designed with a curve to push up.
Any force would apply pressure under the lip I would think.
That's the purpose of a seal. the curved area faces out and the flat part with an opening under the inside to help create a pressure seal. All engine create crank pressure. They are a pump in the combustion chamber and oil pan.

I think the issues it the butt areas and the rotating crank. Not the holes as they are filled. Not the seal on the crank. Unless the surface is extremely rough. I have used these seals with sucess on barely polished 455 cranks without issues. In the past.

************************************************** ***************************

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.


http://PontiacDude.cc

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Hey Wade....... and send my commission check to.........

I'm no Rocket Scientist, but have you considered a dual lip seal. Like the BBC and SBC performance Felpro seals.
Two lips to control the seal. Especially with a serated machined crank journal. Plus you could set the lip crush and longer lay down area a little tighter on the inner seal? Doesn't that design sorta create a vacuum between the two?

************************************************** ***************************

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.


http://PontiacDude.cc