[PonchoV8]

I'm thinking the forged rods came in 58-62, but which engines. Is there a way of knowing without tearing down? Are these really an upgrade for a cast rod in a street build up? What's a good price?

The car I found has a date code of 1960, V8 with a block code of A1 on it. The heads said 538177 on hte center ports (date code '60 also)--odd looking timing cover. The common sites I looked at didn't go back to 60 or only had hipo numbers for 60. I also found a 59 conv Cat with a similar looking V8 (but diff timing cover). Ran out of light and got no date code for that one though.

Doug

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[PonchoV8]

I'm thinking the forged rods came in 58-62, but which engines. Is there a way of knowing without tearing down? Are these really an upgrade for a cast rod in a street build up? What's a good price?

The car I found has a date code of 1960, V8 with a block code of A1 on it. The heads said 538177 on hte center ports (date code '60 also)--odd looking timing cover. The common sites I looked at didn't go back to 60 or only had hipo numbers for 60. I also found a 59 conv Cat with a similar looking V8 (but diff timing cover). Ran out of light and got no date code for that one though.

Doug

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[MR. May]

forged rods were available on:
287,316,347,370,and 389 engines from 1955 to 1962

there was no A1 block but there was an AI which is a 1960 389ci 283hp

[PonchoV8]

That's it. AI. Thanks for the info. Available or mandatory? "forged rods were available on:" I don't want to tear down and find cast.

How about the other questions? Good upgrade? What are they worth?
Doug

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[Will]

Don't waste your time with the early forged rods. They didn't get squat for heat treating, so they are very soft, thus the nickname "rubber rods". They are no better than later cast rods, which really aren't bad parts at all. People over-revving their engines or not replacing the rod bolts with high strength units at rebuild time are why the factory cast rods have a bad rep. For a street engine, a set of factory rods, resized with ARP bolts is plenty good enough to 5500 RPM in a 455 or 6000 RPM in a 400. If you want to upgrade for peace of mind, there are now plenty of very affordable aftermarket offerings out there that would still be cheaper than properly setting up a set of the old forged rods (having them heat treated then completely rebuilt/resized).


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'72 Formula 400 Lucerne Blue, Blue Deluxe interior - My first car!
'73 Firebird 400/4-speed Black on Black, mix & match.

[Will]

Don't waste your time with the early forged rods. They didn't get squat for heat treating, so they are very soft, thus the nickname "rubber rods". They are no better than later cast rods, which really aren't bad parts at all. People over-revving their engines or not replacing the rod bolts with high strength units at rebuild time are why the factory cast rods have a bad rep. For a street engine, a set of factory rods, resized with ARP bolts is plenty good enough to 5500 RPM in a 455 or 6000 RPM in a 400. If you want to upgrade for peace of mind, there are now plenty of very affordable aftermarket offerings out there that would still be cheaper than properly setting up a set of the old forged rods (having them heat treated then completely rebuilt/resized).


----------------------------
'72 Formula 400 Lucerne Blue, Blue Deluxe interior - My first car!
'73 Firebird 400/4-speed Black on Black, mix & match.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

The Proline H-beam rod is 10 times stronger then those early Forged (Rubber) rods.

By the time you..........
install ARP bolts.
reisze them.
balance them.
and grind the beams and pin area to reduce weight, they are still heavier and cost as much or more then the H-beam $399.00 Proline rod that we sell.

************************************************** ***************************

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.


http://PontiacDude.cc

[Skip Fix]

Dude what do the Prolines weigh? My early rods were pretty light.

As he said its cheaper and beter to buy new. GOOD heat treating then machining and you have another $200 in the rods. Since the are 40-50 years old they may be resized inconsistantly. Got a heat treated set I'll let go cheap, good SPS bolts, small end machined for Mopar pins, beams ground,shotpeened.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I do know that the Proline H-beam rods are a minumum

130 Grams Lighter

then a Cast Pontiac rod.

Lighter is faster and better.

************************************************** ***************************

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.


http://PontiacDude.cc

[GONZO]

I agree with Pontiac Dude. Don't skimp, todays stuff is lightyears ahead.

RAIV Don't leave home without it.
www.musclecarrace.com

[larry davis]

Yeah' like Crower Sportsman rods.



SECOND AMENDMENT: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY!

[Stuart]

All the Pontiac engines from that era had forged rods. What are your plans - is this going to be a high performance buildup or a rebuild to factory specs? For normal use the original rods should be just fine, but if you're looking for big horsepower the other guys are right, it's probably cheaper to get new rods.

[PonchoV8]

I'm still just buying parts and found a couple of these engines and thought I'd grab 'em for later. I'll go with stock/ARP bolts or possibly aftermarket. Rubber rods are a no go for me. I've seen an ebay auction that someone wanted 299 for a set--untreated yet. Don't know why though hearing what the deal is.

Doug

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[Skip Fix]

Shoot you can have my heat treated ones for WAY less!

Although BEFORE the proliferation of good less expensive rods that's what Butler used in alot of high hp motors, next step up was Crower/Carillos that were $1000 a set.

[PonchoV8]

That's how current I am. I got that info back in hte 90s sometime from some mag at the time. Can't understand why a Pontiac guy would advertise those things on ebay at that price saying they were an inexpensive alternative to aftermarkets though.

Doug

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[digger1978]

Don't forget the 73-74 SD Firebirds had forged rods to!

[Skip Fix]

The 73-74 SD rods I had were WAY heavy around 920 gms.

[PonchoV8]

Those are real money too aren't they? I'd def go with the aftermarkets compared to those.

Doug

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[Randy Frazier]

The '55-'57 factory forged rods were in all V-8s including the Pontiac engines that were installed in GMC pickups. The main differences in the later rods was that the small end had bushings for a full floating pin in the 55-57 engines. This was changed in 1958 to a press fit pin. The press fit type forged rod continued in all V-8 and Tempest 4 cylinder production through 1962, except for SD engines which got a stronger rod. A few years ago I bought three full sets of these rods that were new old stock units which had been rebuilt by Federal-Mogul. (No longer in production) I built a street/strip 455 GTO engine that will run mid 12's with these rods and have had no problems at all with them in 9 years of use. A friend got one set of these rods and had them heat treated. When he put them in the engine they failed because of the heat treat methods used. I would not hesitate to use them again without heat treating them. They are about 72 grams lighter than a cast rod. I wouldn't want to use them in a 600 horse drag engine but for street strip use they are fine. I think they, along with the cast rods have been victims of too many bench racing sessions.