[Bull]

I'm looking at their "ORIGINAL PERFORMANCE" front end kits for my '78 Lemans. Has anyone ordered from them before?

Also, I would just like to pose the question of whether poly bushings serve any purpose on a pure daily driver/street car that will not see any aggressive high-speed hairpin turn activity? I have heard that they end up making the car ride harshly on a street car, but before I lay out my cash, I'd like to have some first-hand recommendations.

[Bull]

I'm looking at their "ORIGINAL PERFORMANCE" front end kits for my '78 Lemans. Has anyone ordered from them before?

Also, I would just like to pose the question of whether poly bushings serve any purpose on a pure daily driver/street car that will not see any aggressive high-speed hairpin turn activity? I have heard that they end up making the car ride harshly on a street car, but before I lay out my cash, I'd like to have some first-hand recommendations.

[DOC]

I have used them twice on daily drivers without any problems however these vehicles were not drivem hard, just regularly...

[screamingchief]

Have used PST products on several different projects,putting an O.E. super kit on my brothers 68 ranchero GT 390 currently and everything is going fine,had to wait like a week for a backordered idler arm but was'nt no big deal as I was not in a big hurry. And have used they're polygraphite bushings too,plan on using them again also.As far as ride quality that falls into the realm of personal preference as what some like others will not,the poly stuff does firm things up,but I don't feel its overly harsh myself.I have not used the front end suspension kits that many times,but the couple of times I have the parts appear to be decent,and I have'nt had any problems myself. Most of my dealings with them have been for the bushings(subframe,rear leaf springs,spring pads,sway bars)and those experiences have been nothing but positive.I had to rephrase this so it would not confuse the basis of my experiences and not to seem to be giving the wrong idea of what specific parts I was refering to.

[PMDRACER]

I had PST on the '71. Had an upper ball joint fail backing out of the driveway.
Then both outer tie rod ends snapped off at the top of the threaded ends right through the hole for the cotter pin.
Do yourself a favor. Go to the parts store and buy parts from the USA. TRW (Federal Mogul), MOOG, Spicer. Get poly bushings from PY, Summit or Jegs.
Some guys here have had luck with PSC, but you really don't save that much money with these kits, and alot of times you have no idea if you are getting offshore or USA-made parts.

Spend $5000 on paint and body work
Spend $2000-$5000 on the motor and trans
Spend $1500 on the interior
Spend $1000+ on rims and tires
Balk at an extra $40 for brakes and suspension parts.

[Brad B. Hillebrand]

My experience has been good. I used their complete front end rebuilt kit and the products are a good quality, for me anyway.

Brad

[greyno3]

Did the whole frontend on my 69 GP J/428. I think they have really good products. I would go with the polygraphite any day.

[beemergary]

Used poly bushings on a 67 GTO restoration. Harsh ride. Won,t do it again.

[Bull]

I hadn't really even considered that the PST parts might be of foreign origin, good thing you mentioned it. I'm really not trying to cut corners on parts quality, I prefer to buy quality US made stuff whenever possible. It's just that my local NAPA doesn't sell all the parts as a kit, which is convenient and saves you a few dollars. But, I guess that is the route I'll end up going.

[David Jones]

http://www.performancesuspension.com/
Good folks, reasonable price and kits.
They are American made products.

[screamingchief]

When I checked out PSC's info it states that the bushings are made in the USA,all it says about the source for the suspension pieces is they are federal mogul,and nothing about where they were originally made. As with any parts you buy you should check them when you recieve them FROM ANY BRAND if this is important to you,as some parts are only available from overseas manufacturers.Now I havent purchased any federal mogul front end pieces latley to check where they're made so I can't say for sure one way or the other.The pieces in the kit I got for my brothers ranchero all look to be as high a quality as is available anywhere so I have no problem using them,as with any product the possibility of a defective product is there and not knowing the circumstances of the situation mentioned I would not be able to say where I would lay the blame.The truth is that most all these companies who market these kits most likely get they're parts from the same sources, and they would have to be insane to market a product that they know would be likely to fail as the liability is simply staggering and with both companies being in buissness for quite a few years I would think that would not be the case.Most all the stores here try to sell off brand front end pieces as they're first option for purchase,and getting name brand pieces usually requires special ordering,the only places that carry the name brands are the "jobber" houses that supply the shops with parts,and I agree that being careful about what you get in the way of suspension pieces is a wise move,but I have seen even name brand parts that were made improperly and/or just outright failed for whatever reasons.I have been in this field for almost twenty years and done suspension work the whole time,and I feel using any single example of anything as a rule to follow is not the best idea.The truth is I have seen more O.E. pieces fail than anything else,and this is usually due to lack of maintanance or inspection over a period of time so the whole "do it and forget it" thing is not a good idea either,the truth is suspensions like any other parts on a car require upkeep and attention periodically.And proper installation and inspection prior to installaton of ANY part is critical to getting good results from your parts choices.

[PMDRACER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I feel using any single example of anything as a rule to follow is not the best idea. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As long as it's not your single example, right? I'm telling you the parts failed after 12,000 miles. And don't give me 'maintenance' excuses. I change the oil and lube the front end every 3000 miles. The PST parts that I rec'd were cast with "Made In China". Unfortunately, I assumed that the parts were made in the USA when I got the kit and me being the trustworthy person I am, never checked.

I still have the remains of that ball joint. One of these days I'll have to find it and post some pics.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ...and they would have to be insane to market a product that they know would be likely to fail as the liability <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Call it insane, call it stupidity, call it whatever you want. Offshore products are sold here that are not worth anything more than high-priced door stops. That includes front end and brake parts, cranks, rods, etc. Happens all the time.
You know how they get away with it? Simple. The warranties include clauses containing the words such as "misuse and/or abuse", "lack of maintenance", "improper assembly", and "unqualified installer".

All I'm saying is why take chances? Buy American parts.


NOT TO SINGLE OUT ANY ONE PERSON, but I've heard this argument WAAAAY too many times. Especially on this specific board.

"I've been doing this/It's been my job/a passion of mine for X-number of years"
So what. Doesn't mean you're perfect and incapable of being incorrect.

[screamingchief]

"Does'nt mean your perfect and incapable of being incorrect" This would apply to everyone,including yourself? I said it is a good idea to check the origin of ANY parts regardless of brand and check the quality.Truth is I did this for a living,I was the guy people would bring it to when someone got in over they're head,I was the one they bring it to get it aligned,at the dealerships I've worked at I also was the one who did your recalls,take your pick.This is like the second time you jumped my case over this kind of thing,and I've tried to be nice and polite,but frankly I am getting tired of it,it seems like you are the one who thinks he is perfect,should we all listen to only your opinion or advice.Like I said I have been at this professionally for nearly twenty years,and have worked on more vehicles than probably 95% of people here,but I will still admit I am not "perfect" but I have dealt with a good many of people who thought they were until they had to have they ride towed in to be fixed right.
I agree that when given the choice it is wise to buy the best product,the truth is that not everything available is made in the USA,some parts just simply are not made here anymore,take a look at any part you buy from here out and try to find only made in USA. And let me end this by repeating I AGREE BUYING AMERICAN IS BEST,when possible and quality is important,IF IT IS THE BEST PART available.Not every single item made here is the "best" anymore I have seen plenty of crap made at home here also.I would suggest if you have questions about the parts call and ask them,or just go elsewhere if you choose,point is others here have used the parts and had no problems,but I guess we are all just lucky and dumb for using them.Last time you told me to "relax buddy" so I'll pass that advice along this time.

[FORSALE]

I have used and can say they are cheaper than Moog stuff. I agree with the off shore stuff. These Co sell out by taking a US product and have some overseas co make what they feel is an identical part with no regard to it's fucntion. Ask Edelbrock about all the Air Gap copies or Boyd about all the knock offs. Heck the Moog stuff might be built in a foriegn country but you know that it is correct and not an imitation. Not worth the chance with suspension parts.

[screamingchief]

And I have had parts from just about any name brand producer that has been crap too,thats all I'm getting at.I have had brake hoses from bendix where the banjo bolt hole was to small for the banjo bolt,and as a matter of fact had the same problem PMD was talking about the tie rods,the holes for the cotter pins were drilled too large and the stud broke before they even reached proper torque,and yes these were moog tie rods,just for a different application.I have had valve springs from crane cams fail on me,does this mean I should never use they're products again,no I have ordered a cam and lifter kit from them for my brothers ranchero.If I had to not use any products from companies whose parts have had failures I(or anyone else)simply would have to quit driving cars.Just look at the recalls on ANY new model of cars and see for yourselves how many pieces there have issues,and I'm sure a good deal of those were made in the USA too.I have worked at dealerships,and jobber shops among others,and have worked in parts departments in both also and can tell you firsthand that ANY part made ANYWHERE can be screwed up.I have had to send back tons of stuff from dealership stock because they found out too late something was wrong with them.So the truth is you have to watch everything you get no matter where you get it! There were a good many parts for certain applications from some major brands that we just would not use because the design of that specific part was inferior to that from other sources,this is where experience comes in(and all those years I was talking about)I have nothing to prove here so I simply was passing on my view as the question was asked,if it seemed like I was implying anything that was not intended.

[PMDRACER]

From ScreamingChief:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This is like the second time you jumped my case over this kind of thing <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude, you are absolutely correct and I feel I must apologize. I shot from the hip and it came off wrong. Sorry.

BTW - See your private messages.

I will also state though that I am 100% correct that although USA-made parts can be defective, you are running a much larger chance of getting defective parts from overseas. Everybody agrees with that.

[screamingchief]

Certainly,I tried to say that in most instances I feel I can agree with that,but tried to qualify my statement with the fact that in any given case it is not always absolute.And I would probably be cautious about any parts I use regardless of origin.
I really could go on for hours about all the problems/defects with various parts from virtually any source,like I said I have been at this a long time in the parts,repair and performance end of things and to be honest it can be somewhat unnerving when parts fail.
If I could say for certain whether any parts would last forever,or fail tomorrow I guess I would be perfect,but thats not the case.
The parts I recieved all would seem to be as good as any available from any brand,and to show I'm unbiased on this,I will say I was not impressed with the idler arm I recieved,which is fine as the original is still perfectly serviceable.But I feel that it would still hold up and work just fine,like I said some pieces for certain applications from certain suppliers just are'nt as good as some others,that is just how the parts buisness is.
The biggest asset of buying the pieces locally is you get to see the part before actually having to fork out the $$$,and you would not have to mess with shipping it back if you did not like what you recieved.
I would never put these parts on my brothers car if I felt there was any likelyhood of a problem,and feel it is a marked improvement over what was on the car for sure.Now this is also a completely different application so,who knows the parts for our cars could be a whole different story.The other kits I used was quite a while ago,and were gm('74 SS elcamino for a friend,and my '72 SS elcamino)and both of those held up just fine.But again that was some time ago,things constantly change in this buisness and what once was is not always so now.So its cool I really aint worked up or anything and basically agree that it is a sound princapal to follow in general,just be prepared to face exceptions.

[77TA-SE]

I did a complete rebuild of my 1977 T/A's front and rear suspension with the polygraphite kits from PST. Compared to old, cracked, worn stock rubber pieces, there's a big difference in ride and handling. Is it harsh? Not to me. Is it firm? Yes. It feels like a sports car. It doesn't beat you up in daily driving, but you sure notice it when you push into a corner harder than normal. Freeway on/off ramps are alot more fun now. Would I do it again? Absolutely. PST mis-shipped one part (rear sway bar bushings), and after I called them I had the correct part in a couple of days. No biggie. In my experience, the quality was good. I've only got a few thousand miles on my rebuild, but I'd use them again.

Just my $0.02...

Mike

[Fake Goat]

I was told that Moog has extremely good parts, but are also twice as expensive as PST (at Jobber price, 3 x's more for retail). Moog also had a warehouse fire about a year ago that all but wiped out there inventory. They turned to imports to fill the gap while they rebuilt and did have some issues (which they took care of).

Point is all of these manufacturers have their problems from time to time, you just have to see who has the smallest number of problems and go with them. I have heard plenty of good things about PST and will be installing the OEM kit in my GA. Just hope I don't have a ball joint go south on me!!

[Bull]

Well, I'm glad you two made up here...you were both starting to give me a guilty conscience since both of the semi-heated encounters that took place between you were as a result of threads that I had posted !

I'm still undecided as to whether to use stock rubber bushings/other parts from NAPA (pretty sure they are USA made) or go with PST or PSC for the poly stuff. Suspension work for me is a scary ballbreaker (those damn coil springs scare me to death) so I don't want to have to re-do anything if I decide later that the rubber is too spongy or the polygraphite too stiff.

&lt;sigh&gt;