[pmdclassics]

What are the numbers as far as Canadian built vs US built Judges. Are they valued the same?

[pmdclassics]

What are the numbers as far as Canadian built vs US built Judges. Are they valued the same?

[gtoric]

Of the 3,797 "The Judges" built in 1970, 288 were assembled in Oshawa. Of those, 242 were RAIII w/man, 45 were RAIII w/auto, and 1 was 455 w/auto. All were hardtop, no The Judge convertibles were built in Oshawa.

I don't believe that there is a value difference, up or down, for these north-of-the-border The Judges.

[peppergreen]

Guys, Website (GTOAlley) states that there were 442 Judges built up here in the Great White North. There's been two in the last few months on EBay....a barely existing Pepper Green project with vinyl top and a blue (original red) automatic that was on Ebay twice this year. Both built in Canada. Looks like WT1 is stamped right on the cowl tag, and on that green one, M 21 was stamped on it as well.

[peppergreen]

Oh yeah, I think all of the Canadian Judges should be sent back to Canada as they may contain Mad Cow Disease.......I know a great place to quarantine them until all is well.

[CDN2PLS2]

I'm still looking for the ONE 455 car!

[gtoric]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PepperGreen 70 Judge:
Guys, Website (GTOAlley) states that there were 442 Judges built up here in the Great White North. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't know where GTOAlley got their info, and quite frankly, there is more than one factual mistake on that site. In fact, I couldn't even find the Canadian The Judge production numbers that you have quoted. Could you provide a link? I got my numbers from research performed by Fred Simmons in 1989.

[peppergreen]

Hi Ric,

Here is the link to the 70 Judge info saying 442 built in Oshawa.
http://www.gtoalley.com/70judge.html

If no worky, click on the left column where it has shirts, ads, Judge, etc.

Fred is probally correct.
Any 71 Judges built in Oshawa? THAT would be a rare car.

[CDN2PLS2]

No '71z,but they built GTOz again in '73.

[gtoric]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PepperGreen 70 Judge:
Hi Ric,

Here is the link to the 70 Judge info saying 442 built in Oshawa.
http://www.gtoalley.com/70judge.html

If no worky, click on the left column where it has shirts, ads, Judge, etc.

Fred is probally correct.
Any 71 Judges built in Oshawa? THAT would be a rare car. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks PepperGreen, found it. That looks like it could be owner-supplied info.
No '71 or '72 A-bodies built in Oshawa that featured the T41 Endura Styling front clip. For some reason that assembly plant did not want to deal with the endura front end.

[peppergreen]

All the steel mills in Ontario probally revolted when they found out an endura bumper was being installed instead of steel.

[URHONOR]

442 is correct. Here is one of them. Orbit Orange,Black Top, Ram Air III,PS,PW,PL,PST,8 Track,console,THM 400,and more.

Your Contact for this is! George J. Zapora
Vintage Specialist

General Motors of Canada Limited 1-800-263-3777

[URHONOR]

hello again!!!

[gtoric]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by URHONOR:
442 is correct. Your Contact for this is! George J. Zapora
Vintage Specialist
General Motors of Canada Limited 1-800-263-3777 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This would indicate that all of Fred Simmons's number crunching for 1970 production figures is incorrect.

[peppergreen]

Nice Judge URHONOR,

Pete Stack has an orbit orange Oshawa Judge up in Kamloops, and there is two here in Calgary including Classic Performance in Calgary has an orbit orange Judge in the showroom that I've heard is Oshawa built, but I haven't checked.

Original Black top? That seemed to be a Canadian thing. Good winter insulation I guess

[URHONOR]

PepperGreen 70 Judge

I know Pete, heck of a nice guy! Last may we were returning home from Tiger run in Bend Ore., there were three Orbit Orange Judges heading north on I-5 all in a row. What a sight Ay!!!!

[CDN2PLS2]

I would go with Fred's numbers long before George's.

[URHONOR]

CDN2PLS2 Why would you go with Fred's number of Judges instead of George's? George documents vins sent in on Canadian built cars at General Motors of Canada? Isn't GM of Canada the same as PHS of the US? I am not familiar with whom Fred is could you tell me more?
Thanks!

[SpartanMSU]

If I may respond instead of Canadian2+2 . . .

PHS is not the same as GM of Canada. I don't think GMoC sends invoices but rather has records of cars destined for Canadian sales. PHS should have the invoices for the respective Canadian cars. In addition, PHS is not quite a GM entity.

I've met C2+2 and Fred numerous times and I know they know what they're talking about.

[CDN2PLS2]

The canadian set up was done by Dave Low and Frank Mercer when it was Free!! I've gone to Oshawa with some friends to see how it was done. You would not believe the mistakes I've seen since Frank and George took over.How about GTOz with TWO different axle ratios or 14 and 15 inch tires !!!!! on the same car.I have the docs on ALOT of Canadian cars and all of Fred's sheets as a few other people here do also.I can't say enuff about his work done for free as a true Enthusiast.