[LouisianaGuy]

just built a fresh 455 [img]smile.gif[/img] .30 over forged pistons,stock rods w/polished beams,entire rotating ass balanced, 6X-4 heads, shaved just to clean em up, w/211/177 Ferra valves gasket matched and ported a bit nothing major, 3 angle valve job new springs good to 550 lift,BB chevy studs, 68 428 cast intake w/modified X-over,anti pump lifters, cam specs im not too shure on all i know is its an ultradine, and has 113 deg centerline, and something like 473 deg lift, supposedly its bout the largest i can run and still use my power brakes. as it is i can feel them fading when i power brake the car at the line. turbo 350 tranny w/2500 stall, Carb is a 795 CFM Qjet made by Edelbrock. 3.73 gears, HEI dist w/Accel super coil,cap rotor,and wires,Tires 275/60/15, and all this is in a 77 TA with NOthing removed.
Best pass at the track Yielded the following #s
R/T--- .607
60'--- 2.134
330--- 5.942
1/8--- 9.132
mph--- 76.81
1000-- 11.886
1/4--- 14.20
MPH--- 96.38
i added the coil, and some MT Street Et's, which are 26" tall.and havent had a chance to go to the track yet to give it another shot
My question to you experts is ...Should the car go faster with this engine, and if so why is it not?? i know my 60' times blow but hopefully the slicks will take care of that. was really hoping for a 12.90s pass but dont look like ill see that.
How much time should the slicks give me over my stock tires ...a full second??
Thanks for any info.
Mike

[LouisianaGuy]

just built a fresh 455 [img]smile.gif[/img] .30 over forged pistons,stock rods w/polished beams,entire rotating ass balanced, 6X-4 heads, shaved just to clean em up, w/211/177 Ferra valves gasket matched and ported a bit nothing major, 3 angle valve job new springs good to 550 lift,BB chevy studs, 68 428 cast intake w/modified X-over,anti pump lifters, cam specs im not too shure on all i know is its an ultradine, and has 113 deg centerline, and something like 473 deg lift, supposedly its bout the largest i can run and still use my power brakes. as it is i can feel them fading when i power brake the car at the line. turbo 350 tranny w/2500 stall, Carb is a 795 CFM Qjet made by Edelbrock. 3.73 gears, HEI dist w/Accel super coil,cap rotor,and wires,Tires 275/60/15, and all this is in a 77 TA with NOthing removed.
Best pass at the track Yielded the following #s
R/T--- .607
60'--- 2.134
330--- 5.942
1/8--- 9.132
mph--- 76.81
1000-- 11.886
1/4--- 14.20
MPH--- 96.38
i added the coil, and some MT Street Et's, which are 26" tall.and havent had a chance to go to the track yet to give it another shot
My question to you experts is ...Should the car go faster with this engine, and if so why is it not?? i know my 60' times blow but hopefully the slicks will take care of that. was really hoping for a 12.90s pass but dont look like ill see that.
How much time should the slicks give me over my stock tires ...a full second??
Thanks for any info.
Mike

[AJ78]

DAMN! I have no idea why you are so slow......My '78 ran a 15.2 @ 91 mph with headers and dual exhaust, open scoop and K&N. That's it. I shifted myself, did a burn out with my bfg radial Ta's, and I was off. Not to mention, my intake manifold had a huge vaccuum leak, due to me missing an entire hose. I sure hope that is not a normal time for an engine setup like that, our cars are very heavy and all, but damn. Maybe very bad traction? But even then, trap speed is usually higher than the avg ET it goes with if you have major traction issues, I think. How does the car run in general? Does it seem very strong on the street? Do you have any other cars that you have compared it to on the street?

[Brian Baker]

Traction issues aside, I think you have too much rear gear for such a mildly cammed 455, especially if you plan on running 26" tires. Knowing more about the cam specs will help.

79 T/A, 4150 lbs. race weight, 3.23 gear, 28" tire
455 +.030", 6X heads, Comp-280AH10 cam =
12.78 @ 106 mph - 1.81 60 ft.
11.91 @ 115 mph - 1.75 60 ft. (150-HP nitrous shot from launch)

[ September 07, 2002, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: Brian Baker ]

[Brian Baker]

At what rpm does the engine "flash" to on launch?

[LouisianaGuy]

Well i had the 275/60/15s on when i ran the posted times,,,they are like 30"tall or something ot that effect. the car runs smoothe, no vacum leaks ,,tap the gas once in the morning and bam she fires right up ..doesnt seem to have a CAM at all its just a really smoothe idle, but im told that is how a Pontiac is with a cam as mild as mine??? im at a loss, just seems i outa be going alot faster than i am. now on the launch Rpm issue ..i have tried to leave at 2000 but all hat does is smokes the tires, its like i put it a 2k the tree comes down i nail it a bit more and we get the resulting 2.134 60' times. with the 275/60/15s i cross the trap right at like 50000-5500 rpm which is all i wana push this thing to.
the only thing i can see that dont seem right is the motor doesnt sound Crisp like a small Block cheby it just kinda sits there going blub blub blub wiht no choppey idle, unless ya turn the timing down hehe...oh yeah got 28 degrees total timing in by 2400 Rpm, which is what was recomended, im thinking bout going with a bigger cam but got the power brake issue any suggestions will be apreciated

[Skip Fix]

My original 400 in my 78 with just a [email protected] cam ran mid 14s with 2.56 gears, something is a miss.

The combo should be good for low 13s easy.

As Brian had said the 3.73 will probably be a bit much with the 26". Most 275/60-15s are 28" tall, OK for them(or 1/8 mile).I could never get consistant 60 fts with DOT stickies real slicks were always better for me. Maybe 0.2-0.4 but mainly consistancy.

I have yet to see an Ultradyne unless custom ordered come with a 113 lobe sep, 110 is their standard.

my 78 weighing 3900 with a 455, UD 288/296(231/[email protected]) Qjet, headers and a 3.42 gear would run 12.90s on street Comp TAs.That was with a 2.00 69 ft also.

Cam and convertor are where I would look first,

[Skip Fix]

Total timing probably somewhere around 36 degrees.

[Brian Baker]

What Skip said.

You've got 3 things here that need to be addressed to get that car to run where you want.

More timing. I would start at 32 total and bump it 2 degrees advanced from there until the car slows, then turn it back. In other words, set it to 32 and make a pass, set it to 34 and make another pass. Don't look at the ET, look at the MPH. Keep advancing 2 degrees at a time until the MPH drops off, then reset to total timing mark that produced the fastest MPH. Don't make any other changes while doing this!

Better tires. You're not going to get any grip at all unless you run a slick, or one of the DOT rated "stickies" (like the Mickey Thompson ET Street or the BFG drag radial).

Less gear. That 3.73 is just too much gear for a mild 455. 455's tpyically produce broad, flat torque curves, so it's best to load the engine down and take advantage of this. If you stick with a 28" tall tire, I'd drop the gear to at least a 3.55. 26" I'd go with a 3.23.

Additionally, after sorting all of this out, try different shift points. You may find that it runs quicker when shifting at 4800-5000 than shifting at 5400-5500.

[LouisianaGuy]

cam specs are as follows...
Lift 442/465
Duration 270/280
duration @50 214/224
centerline 107/115
the cam is custom grind, i told the guy i wanted to keep me pwr brakes and run my ac when i put it back on, and this is what he suggested. So if i go to a bigger cam what will happen to my pwr brakes.
Also i dont want to get rid of the 3.73 gears if i dont have to, so this means i need a taller tire correct, like say a 295/60/15 or some monstrous thing like that?? i have the MT Et slicks that are 26"tall but aint had a chance to test em yet...the converter is working right. i just want to have my pwr brakes woring and have that nice Lopety idle, have my pwr brakes and run what ever else accessories i wana run, and go 12.90s.....is this being unreasonable???

[ September 07, 2002, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: LouisianaGuy ]

[LouisianaGuy]

Yer right Skip my 275/60/15s are 28" tall too bad they wont hook up too well but the 26" street slicks i have are Borowed so its no sweat on the m...im not loosing money on em [img]smile.gif[/img] . so to keep the gear i have i need taller slicks?? and maby bigger cam ??
Thanks
Mike

[Brian Baker]

The 041 (R.A. IV) grind would work well with your combo, and still retain decent vacuum to work your power brakes. It specs "around" 230/240 @ .050" on a 114-lda. Your current cam has a 111-lda (107+115/2=111). Your current cam is not a bad choice, you just won't get a lopey idle with it.

I ran a Comp 237/237 @ .050" in my 79 T/A when the 455 was first put together, it pulled around 9-10" of vacuum at idle, which was fine for the power brakes. Most recently I've run a custom grind, 238/243 @ .050" on a 112-lda with Rhoades lifters. It pulled 11" of vacuum. I've also run a Nunzi cam and a Comp280AH10 (I liked the 280AH10 alot).

I still think the 3.73's are a poor choice for your combo, even with a much larger cam. Your engine is only safely capable of about 5500 rpm unless you've gone the route of lightweight pistons and forged rods. Don't be scared by the lower 3.55 or 3.23 gear. You'll be able to amaze your friends by running 12's at the track and still be able to cruise down the highway at 80+ mph.

[Rick Lightfoot]

Originally posted by Brian Baker:
Don't be scared by the lower 3.55 or 3.23 gear.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Isn't that supposed to be higher?

[b-man]

LouisianaGuy, if you want to make best use of the cam you have I would use a 3.08 or 3.23 gear at the most, 3.08s being the better choice. You probably can't use a tall enough tire to drop the 3.73 gear ratio you now have into the best range for that mild cam. A 29.5" tall slick is about the tallest you can fit on your car with cutting up the wheelwells. Any street tire on the rear that tall won't provide any kind of decent handling that the T/A is famous for for everyday driving.

Even if you swap to the RAIV cam like Brian suggested a 3.23 gear would be ideal with a 275/60-15 tire that is about 27 to 28" tall. My own set of 275-60-15s measure 27.25" tall, not even close to the 30" dimension that you have stated. The 3.73 gear and 29.5 tire would be ideal for a mid-11 second 455 powered race car with a very large cam. 3.73s are too much gear for a street 455.

I run a similar cam (factory 068 w/1.65 rockers, 212/[email protected],.447" lift) to the one you have in my own very mild 455 powered daily driver. Here are the rest of the engine and car specs: www.outlawpontiacs.com/members/B-Man.php As you can see my car runs a 2.56 gear (no posi, so I have to roll on the throttle gently) and a 25.25" tall 235/45-17 street radial. I recently swapped the 2.56 rear for a 2.93. It ran just as good if not better with a 2.56 gear than with the 2.93s due to the very mild cam I selected. It ran a best of [email protected] at a sea-level track with the 2.56 gears, ran a 14.1@100 with the 2.93s. Different tracks for those runs, but similar elevations and weather conditions. My 60' times were 2.2 to 2.3 seconds.

455 engines like tall gears, don't gear your Pontiac like you would a Chevy! Good luck.

[LouisianaGuy]

So Brian ya think i should use the 3.08s that i took out of my 68 chevelle if they will work ...i need to look into that. Or opt for finding some 3.23s and keeping my 275/60/15s and not changing the cam. Is the cam i have capeable of getting the times where i want them? But man it will be kinda nice to get on the interstate and not watch that temp gage climb to near 220 degrees if ya keep it at 75-80 too long hehe. i would like to keep the cam i have now for the simple fact that i really dont feel like swapping it lol but if it wont put me into the 12's with the gear change ill do what i have to do.
Thanks
Mike

[Brian Baker]

Rick, I meant lower numerically.

I would use what you have to save some bucks, if you have 3.08's I would definately swap them for the 3.73's pronto. These gears with more ignition advance should get you into the deep 13's and be real friendly on the interstate. You're still gonna' need a better tire to get in the 12's though (my opinion). Try those borrowed 26" "stickies" with the 3.08's and see what happens.

[ September 08, 2002, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Brian Baker ]

[LouisianaGuy]

Cool Now all i have to do is figure out if the gears will interchange. the 3.08s i have out of the chevelle are out of an 8.8 which is what i believe my TA has in it as well but its a posi unit, where as the chevelle wasnt, had to put a spool in it hehe. so if i find out that the gears wont work anyone got a nice set of 3.08s or 3.23s?? what you think i outa go with Brian the 3.08s or the 3.23s.
Thanks,
Mike

[ September 09, 2002, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: LouisianaGuy ]

[Brian Baker]

I don't think you'll see any 1/4 mile performance difference with either gear.

Your T/A has an 8.5" 10-bolt.

[Rick Lightfoot]

The 8.8 is a Ferd differential.

[LouisianaGuy]

Ack yer right me gota an 8.5, been discussing this gear problem with a friend of mine, and he seems to think i need to leave the 3.73s and just get the car to hook up, and if i can do that i will have some decent times gona try the stickies this weekend and see what happens.
If it dont help well look out rear end here comes some new gears [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Mike

[ September 10, 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: LouisianaGuy ]