[Need A Goat]

Anyone in the Florida region ever do business with them? They have two 70 GTO Judge clones, look great. one is orbit orange the other is black. I'm interested in one of them, but the salesman I spoke to says the black one has "unknown mileage." What the....?

Is it even worth doing business with a dealership for a Goat? I've heard stories good and bad. Any siggestions would be HIGHLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[Need A Goat]

Anyone in the Florida region ever do business with them? They have two 70 GTO Judge clones, look great. one is orbit orange the other is black. I'm interested in one of them, but the salesman I spoke to says the black one has "unknown mileage." What the....?

Is it even worth doing business with a dealership for a Goat? I've heard stories good and bad. Any siggestions would be HIGHLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[Need A Goat]

Here is the link, scroll down till ya see the two 70s.

www.pjsautoworld.com

Jeff

[bigpop]

Jeff,I think that there are some points to consider.The people (salesmen)are there to move the cars,just like any car dealership,and I doubt that they are well versed in all the muscle cars,etc.that are in the inventory.It would take a special salesman who is.Look at the size of the place,alot of overhead to pay for and we all know who contributes to paying these bills,the buyer.The mileage thing is not unusual,as the odometer reading doesn't mean much for cars that are this old.They are just covering their butts.30,000 mile cars are hard to find and they better have reciepts for work done showing when and mileage when done during the cars life.Clones are not as valuable as real cars as a rule of thumb.Buy a legit car.Ask yourself how much is it going to cost me to transport it from Clearwater to PA??I say about 800.00 in an enclosed trailer.I would join a nationally known Pontiac club like the GTOAA or POCI.It is not very expensive.They haveclassified sections including cars.These are cars owned and worked on by people who love the cars and hobby,not some salesman who wants to take your money and forget you as you drive away.The two clubs also offer invaluable technical articles,libraries and great people.Join a local club also,you can cruise to meets and inspect cars and ask questions.Car folks are great folks who,I have found,offer their insights and knowledge freely.The last point is,I would never buy a car sight unseen.There are many tricks to hide flaws(bondo)bent frames from previous accidents which have been straightened,etc.It is better to look a salesman in the eye when talking about a product and not behind the safety of a phone.Hope this helps and good luck.All the best bigpop

[Wade Congdon]

From PJ's site

"400 Pontiac Big Block" :rolleyes:

Ughhhh!

[Need A Goat]

Thanks for the help guys. I cruise, race and show my 96 Impala SS, and at every show if I see a Goat, man I'm there yapping it up with the owner.

Been looking for a 70 now for some time, but I'm going to hold off till I see what I want. I want to make sure I buy confidently and smartly.

I came real close in 99 but it wasn't the right decision. I've read Paul Zazarine's GTO buyers guide about 100 times. Good idea on the GTOAA!

So next time any of you PA guys are at a cruise or show and you see a big black 96 Impala SS, it may be me, and I'll probably be looking at your Goat ;-).

Thanks again!
Jeff

[goatseeker]

Jeff,
BigPop summed it up pretty well in his response but I've got to second his comments on never buying a car sight unseen. Like you, I wanted a GTO really bad and read everything I could get my hands on and spent hours researching and checking classifieds. My major handicap was never having owned a Pontiac before and I will forever be in debt to my local Pontiac club members for keeping me from making a very expensive mistake. I found a '66 convertible at a N.J. dealer who 'specialized' in GTOs and swore this car was a '#1 show car'. From my own research I detected some inconsistencies between the photos and his statements about the car but I was nearly hooked. Fortunately, I also found a similar car owned privately in the same area and the owner emailed all the photos, PHS, answered every question honestly without 'pushing' the car and even sent me a video which really kept me interested. I almost sent a deposit for the convertible but decided to fly up and personally see both cars before deciding. That might sound extreme but it kept me from making a $36000 mistake. The convertible that the dealer said was a 'show car' was a rust bucket that had clearly been cobbled together and looked good from about 20 feet but clearly did not measure up to the advertising. I went to see the privately owned car (a hardtop) and breathed a huge sigh of relief that I didn't get sucked in by the dealer's hype. I wound up with a much, much nicer original, numbers matching car that I bought from an owner who truly appreciated the car and represented it honestly and didn't try to shove it down my throat. I'm sure there are honest dealers out there but you owe it to yourself to do your homework first. Evaluate each car first for what it is, NOT what you want it to be. Take advantage of the free advice of this board from other owners who really love to OWN and drive these cars rather than sell them. Good luck!!

[61man]

I'll second all the above comments, and esp. the ones about joining the national clubs, POCI, and GTOAA. These guys are great and I've even had one look at a car for me in Calf. Took a whole roll of film sent it to me for developing along with his evaluation of the car, It saved me, not only a trip from Ga. to Calf., but I made a new friend also.

[bigpop]

goatseeker,was that dealer by any chance BLACK TIE CLASSICS??Heard that that is his MO. Bigpop

[The Champ]

Jeff

The POCI national convention is in West Virginia this year. You might want to go down there, meet some people, check out the swap meet, and maybe find someone there looking to sell you the GTO of your dreams...

Either way, you need to join the GTOAA and/or POCI.

And keep hangin' around here!!!

[goatseeker]

Bigpop,
Let's just say the answer to your question is YES. As I said in the earlier post - I ALMOST made a $36500 mistake. Because I did my homework, listened to my gut and good advice from a fellow club member before I went up there, I didn't get taken but wound up with a car I'm proud to own.
I realize everybody's got to make a living but a lot of people still make a living by P.T. Barnum's immortal words: "There's a sucker born every minute". ;)

[David Holmberg]

If you are interested in the car, WARPed is very close by and between him and his brother they know Pontiacs. His brother just picked up a 69 TA in Texas, looks Sweet!

[retrojoe]

I tried dealing with Black Tie Classics as well , and they would never respond to my emails about questions I had on certain cars they had for sale. I guess they don't like questions about rust, or is that really a GTO! I really like the cars with Lemans tail lights and GTO front ends that they try to pass off as a GTO! Nice site to look at cars, but not to buy!

[2FAST4U]

I visit PJ's every month. They have some very nice cars but are very overpriced. Their sales people are known to lie as well! Case in point:

I had been to an auto auction 2 years ago and saw a pretty nice silver 68 Firebird convertible with red interior come through. It had these weird chrome hubcaps I remember as I studied every facet of the car very, very well!! Well it was sold fo $6,000 to someone.
A month later I stopped by PJ's world and noticed that same car in their inbound lot(where the cars sit before they get fixed up and detailed for the showroom). I asked a guy there how much the car was going to sell for and he responded they were asking for $16,900!!!! I told him we saw it and he reluctantly claimed it was probably another car I saw at the auction becaue they usually buy cars from owners only. Whatever- I knew it was the same car, but maybe he wasn't aware of its history! No big deal- but huge jump in price!

I returned to PJ's World a month later, and was approached by a salesman. I asked if the Silver Firebird with red Interior was still available to which he replied that it had been sold recently, but he did say they had another Red Firebird available. Cool. As I approached the red Firebird...I quickly noticed those weird wheels again, and fresh new red paint job. The interior color, radio and other accesories were all the same and the top was also red like taht of the silver Firebird. I DEFINITELY KNEW IT WAS THE SAME CAR!!! So I decided to test the salesman! I asked if he was sure its not the same car and that this and that are the same between the two cars and bla,bla,bla,bla,bla. After a couple of minutes he breaks down laughing...stating, "Okay, okay you caught me- its the same car....we just painted it... Boy you're good!!!!" :mad:
Car was now priced at $17,900!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

One thing alot of folks outside Florida don't realize is that this area attracts a lot of foreign, rich tourists who visit Clearwater Beach. These folks fall in love with these cars and pay for the sticker price upfront in cash many times with no hastle or negotiation, and pay for shipment. So thes places, especially PJ's world mark up their prices dramtically...almost 200%% in this case, because they know demand is still regardless! -Chris

P.S. I would deal with individual owners only!

[bigpop]

Chris,that is a very useful story for all potential classic car buyers.If a dealer won't spend $35.00 for PHS I would be very wary,considering the price they ask for some cars..jeez.i was curious on the car that mysteriously looked identical to the previous one you saw,did you check the trim tag?All the best bigpop ps I have a friend in NJ who laughed when I brought up BLACK TIE CLASSICS,that told me all I needed to know.

[goatseeker]

Speaking of Black Tie. I saw the same car I (thankfully)walked away from for $36500 is still on their website. Now the asking price is $42000!!!!!!!!! At least they haven't repainted it to look like a different car! :rolleyes:

[2FAST4U]

BigPops, at the time I wasn't as well versed in trim tag decoding as I am now, so it didn't help me at the time.

But the car when I originally saw it at the auction had a red interior(carpet also)/red top and silver exterior along with those weird wheels, same aftermarket radio, same cracks in the dash pad that had been painted red, B&M shifter, missing shifter and 350 motor, but with 400 turbo hood.
My 2nd time around all these things were exactly the same except for the fresh new, red paint job! -Chris

[Kurt Zimmerman]

Another note on PJ's...

I emailed them last week on the same two cars, and am still waiting for a reply.

If anyone knows any club member selling their 69 or 70 GTO, I would be eternally grateful.
Will take almost any color, but prefer the black ones!

Bigpop- I could not find a listed phone number for the cars you emailed me about, only an address. If I can't talk to a seller, I'll just look elsewhere, especially an out-of-state seller.
But thanks for the lead!!!

Kurt

[A455GTO]

Take a peek here: http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com

Happy hunting, Kurt!

[Kurt Zimmerman]

I check that one every day- have three to look at tomorrow.

Kurt