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Skip Fix · 03-18-2003, 07:27 PM

I've heard about these coming apart on the full length trays. Pulled out all my 4/5 trays. They all have a small crack from the factory scraper slot toward the oil dipstick hole as in the picture.Small cracks. I guess you could grind them out or weld.

Skip Fix · 03-18-2003, 07:27 PM

I've heard about these coming apart on the full length trays. Pulled out all my 4/5 trays. They all have a small crack from the factory scraper slot toward the oil dipstick hole as in the picture.Small cracks. I guess you could grind them out or weld.

Skip Fix · 03-18-2003, 07:28 PM

Another one.

Steve C. · 03-18-2003, 08:15 PM

On the subject...
We recently pulled apart my old 462 and found the 4/5 factory tray all mangled up along the dipstick side. Also had two good size pieces torn away that were in the pan. Along with the tray a crank scraper was installed with a Canton oil pan (no kick out). Tray was clearanced with washers to accomodate a 4.210 stroke in a 400 block.
No indication of problems when the engine was last run and it had years of service with 6000-plus RPM use.
It appears some remnants of metal shavings from the breakage were just starting to migrate thru the oil system. Also the "cut-down" 455 crank had numerious cracks and it appeared to be headed for catastrophe.

(again confronts the issue, should factory trays be used with high rpm/hp use. What was the origional factory intent)

[This message was edited by Steve Coombes on March 18, 2003 at 10:26 PM.]

ventura7211 · 03-18-2003, 09:25 PM

Was it popular to cut the part that the dipstick tube slide into off at one time? I've seen a few old pictures where it appears that the tray has been cut in this manner.

Tom Vaught · 03-18-2003, 09:30 PM

If you look at a Ram Air V oil pan baffle (state
of the art engine for Pontiac at the time) the
engineers dropped the windage tray completely and used only the rear baffle that covered the sump.
The Ram Air V was designed for high rpm usage so
this should tell you something. Tom V.

Old Man Taylor · 03-18-2003, 10:27 PM

You guys have me concerned. I have a 4/5 tray in my racecar. It regularly sees upwards of 7000 RPM.

http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html

Skip Fix · 03-19-2003, 08:12 AM

OMT me also, a teflon coated one in my current race motor, that probably hit well over 7000 when I buzzed the tires one run.

SCOTT ESTERLE · 03-19-2003, 08:15 AM

I've had a couple crack & i simply will not waste my time on them anymore. Baffle in the pan for me.

Mike Davis · 03-19-2003, 08:45 AM

Ok this has caught my attention also-I'm running a 4/5 tray and a baffled pan. I looked at the old tray that came out and it had a small palce starting in it- I don't want to pull this thing apart again.

Steve C. · 03-19-2003, 11:22 AM

When we put the 462 I mentioned back together I have the option of putting back in, along with the crank scraper, a full length factory tray that has been coated as Skip's has or the Canton one way screen windage tray that is sandwiched between the oil pan rails and the engine. I have both on hand.
As it stands right now I'm not in favor of putting in a factory tray, and to be honest I have reservations about using the Canton screen. I think the idea of the sandwiching it and the crank scraper in place is inviting oil leaks.
So now I'm having thoughts of just using the crank scraper and the Canton oil pan, nothing else.
Any opionions or suggestions are appreciated.

'Damn right it's a street car'

Half-Inch Stud · 03-19-2003, 11:35 AM

Yea, I have an opinion, backed by my "years of data"

Seems my trays hold up, yet I have run most of my motors without a dipstick...for sweats and giggles.

68GTO project shortblock is together, with the oilpan loose. Windagetray & rear pan seal are the next&last items to go in/on...oops I forgot the oil driveshaft. That'l go in from the top...after dry-fit shaft clearance check with the HEI.

This go-around, I will use a dipstick tube on the 469 engine (SD-Rods, Cap bolts, used oil pump) with the full-length tray...but:

Sounds to me the windage tray may fight the oil tube extension.

-------------------------------------------------
The air-nibbler is a fun AND handly tool in my garage. WHERE should I nibble the windage tray down?

HIS

"tbdET/1xxMPH/1.xx 60foot/28"/3.54:1/10"/469 #48/Flat HYD/DualQ-Jets/Offyl/3xx0Lbs
11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/469 #48/FlatHYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/469 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs
12.70/103MPH/1.71 60foot/28"/4.10:1/12"/469 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3950Lbs"

sscherin · 03-19-2003, 11:43 AM

I'd be tempted to tig the scraper to the tray then cut the flanges off em both and tig that into the pan..

nice 1 piece unit with no extra gaskets.
Tho at that point I think all you have done is built a Canton Road pan

GURU: One who knows more jargon than you

Scott Schering
70 Firebird 455 12.34 @ 108.2
Http://www.pontiacs.org

Half-Inch Stud · 03-19-2003, 12:04 PM

sscherin,

crank throw clearance becomes a factor
pan removal around the Oil pump sump becomes a puzzle

I'd rather cap-bolt the tray, like the factory designer concluded.

a good oilpan is a better oilpan indeed.

"tbdET/1xxMPH/1.xx 60foot/28"/3.54:1/10"/469 #48/Flat HYD/DualQ-Jets/Offyl/3xx0Lbs
11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/469 #48/FlatHYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/469 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs
12.70/103MPH/1.71 60foot/28"/4.10:1/12"/469 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3950Lbs"

Larry Navarro · 03-19-2003, 01:24 PM

hey steve.....thats what i did; just the scraper and canton pan.
I don't have much run time on the motor(maybe 45minutes) but don't have any leaks.

1973 SD455 T/A
1979 S.E. T/A
http://community.webshots.com/album/16587603rOyvmFCiHs

Skip Fix · 03-19-2003, 04:06 PM

The cracks in mine are maybe only 1/8" long on two and 1/4" on the other I raced some. I can't figure how they would pick up that much vibration to crack, being bolted to the mains. It is pretty thick steel.

myckee · 03-19-2003, 04:41 PM

I'm using a Milodon windage tray. I had to notch some of the openings as my Eagle rods wouldn't clear. Looks like a nice part, however whatever that gold coating is, it is washing off the tray. I'm not sure if this is a result of a leaky head gasket which filled the pan with antifreeze or not. The Milodon oil pan is suffering the same affliction. Otherwise, the quality of the parts seems very good.

As far as the originals cracking...are you guys 100% sure that they weren't like this from the factory? Perhaps low quality stampings? You guys are looking at 30 year old parts. I doubt there are many NOS pieces to compare against.

KGTO · 03-20-2003, 05:54 PM

Mine had a crack and the more I looked the more I found. Don't waste your time. Pitch it and either go without or run an a Canton. In fact I am using a Canton tray and scraper from SD Performance.

1967 GTO 400 4-speed (416) #62's 11:1 solid lifter 6.8 Eagle/Ross full exhaust 11.80's@116---> UPDATED, heads race ported (287/200) and extras; shooting at low 11's in the spring, 10's on spray!

Polar-Pontiac · 03-20-2003, 07:59 PM

I have also gone through this problem with the windage tray cracking. Do you really think it makes a big difference? If not, I'm leaving it on the garage floor.

Skip Fix · 03-25-2003, 01:56 PM

The one with the largest crack(1/4") was one on a RAIV headed 455 I routinely ran 6000 and off throttle autocrossing, and a fair amount of drag passes. So not really that bad for alot of off and on rpms, but only between 430-475 hp motor.

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