#5081  
Old 11-17-2016, 12:00 PM
frank.g frank.g is offline
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Anyone who still has an original fuel pump in their car may also still have original rubber fuel line. There are connectors that join the steel lines, of which there are two found at the fuel tank to the fuel lines, four that go from the fuel tank to the expansion tank behind the rear seat, two that go from the unibody to the subframe, and two that go from the subframe to the fuel pump. Change these before you even start your car again. I am aware of people who have lost their cars due to fire, because these hose connectors dry rotted and leaked. The original hoses cannot tolorate the present formulation of fuel. The four that go to the expansion tank are particularly problematic, because they are long, somewhat hidden, lead to the most interior components of the fuel system, are over the muffler, and carry vapors, which is the form gasoline needs to be to ignite.

  #5082  
Old 11-17-2016, 10:48 PM
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Thanks you all for the info, and thanks for the welcome to PY...
I have a new pump, fuel lines, connectors and hardware on the way!

  #5083  
Old 11-25-2016, 07:39 PM
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I have a request for SD455 owners out there who have (as far as they know) the original starter for their car. What is the part number and the date code on your 1108436 starter?

As you may know I just had my 19,000 mile Formula in the Vintage Certification judging and I received a zero point score for the starter because it had a date code of "1B11" which would be February 1971, more than two years before the car. None of the prior owners ever replaced the starter. At the time of the judging I had no idea that the starter date was that far away from he car build date, otherwise I would have checked on that issue beforehand.

I asked Frank.G to check his starter on his unrestored survivor SD T/A and low and behold his original starter has the same exact date as mine! 1B11. His car was shipped 20 days before mine (6/29/73 versus 7/19/71)

Please crawl under your cars when you get a chance (this gives you an excuse to get away from all the annoying relatives in your house for Thanksgiving right now) .

Here's a photo of my starter and Frank.G's starter.




  #5084  
Old 11-25-2016, 07:53 PM
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Interesting. I've been grappling with mine for a while now. Mine is a 1st week of June car. The second owner who had it since '74 claimed only the solenoid had been replaced and the first owner didn't have any work done. You may have to do some early searches on posts by me, but mine is the 500 version which is a std 455 starter. The date code as I recall was 2 or 3 weeks before the car.

  #5085  
Old 11-25-2016, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njsteve View Post
I asked Frank.G to check his starter on his unrestored survivor SD T/A and low and behold his original starter has the same exact date as mine! 1B11. His car was shipped 20 days before mine (6/29/73 versus 7/19/71)
I'm sure you meant to type 7/19/73. I was going to question why you received zero points, instead of partial because of correct PN. But understand you were not the one doing the scoring (I'm not one to question a judge but..., let's just leave it at that). With the shut down at the end of the '72 year and the late build of the '73 SD, I wonder how many they had stockpiled. '74 was a different PN.

  #5086  
Old 11-25-2016, 08:21 PM
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Hand built engines got their own pallet/bin of Starters, balanced parts, Bolts, manifolds, Pumps and hardware to pull from. The SD was Being built in '72 ( there is one example in existence ). I am willing to bet they ALL had date similar starters due to this process. The engines were in their own "Sub Assembly" area, with their own stock of hardware.
This has been seen in BBC Tonawanda engines that needed some hands on at assembly Time, Also in Flint Built Z-28 engines.
If the SD had a M13 ordered for it, the Transmission could be OVER a YEAR older than the car and be correct for it.
With The originality of the car verifiable, I would stick with your Starter, I am betting its original.
I serviced a '73 SD Trans Am at the Dealership in '78 for overheating, it had only 4,000 miles on it and was Not from New England. Warranty work. First thing I did was look to see if it had a heat shield on the Starter, and I gave the starter numbers to our parts guy to see if it had the correct starter. I distinctly remember him saying it was a "late 71 starter" and should be fine. Heat soak with unleaded fuel and smog equipment was bad in those days. I ended up leaving the starter and Pulled the Pump and changed the divider plate ( we stocked them due to rust ) , and put in a 160 thermostat ( that part was NOT warranty, was my convincing the owner to do it) Quick Flush and out the door.
Don't Discount the The fact that the easiest way to get a engine built may not always follow the "rules" for casting dates or stamped dates.
-- my 2 cents having seen / owned some non correct, BUT Still original cars...

  #5087  
Old 11-25-2016, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njsteve View Post
I have a request for SD455 owners out there who have (as far as they know) the original starter for their car. What is the part number and the date code on your 1108436 starter?

As you may know I just had my 19,000 mile Formula in the Vintage Certification judging and I received a zero point score for the starter because it had a date code of "1B11" which would be February 1971, more than two years before the car. None of the prior owners ever replaced the starter. At the time of the judging I had no idea that the starter date was that far away from he car build date, otherwise I would have checked on that issue beforehand.

I asked Frank.G to check his starter on his unrestored survivor SD T/A and low and behold his original starter has the same exact date as mine! 1B11. His car was shipped 20 days before mine (6/29/73 versus 7/19/71)

Please crawl under your cars when you get a chance (this gives you an excuse to get away from all the annoying relatives in your house for Thanksgiving right now) .

Here's a photo of my starter and Frank.G's starter.



I'm sure I'm going to ruffle some guys feathers here with what I am about to say but Ive said it before and will continue to do so.
car show judges that say something is absolutely wrong (excluding something so obvious it couldn't be) are a joke. I have seen it several times where a guy has a car he bought new and knows something hasn't been changed and some joker of a judge is counting him off for it. an example of my own is years ago some know it alls were trying to tell me that my ra 4 bird had at least one head changed because it had one with the full part # and the other one with just the 722. funny that the one in question was bought new by a guy in my neighborhood and I have known the car since day one. he swore it had never been changed and he was an amature photographer and took a lot of pics of the car the day he brought it home just a few miles from the dealership. I tried to tell them this and that my other ra 4 bird was the same way. I had no explanation as to why but knew it was too coincidental that both were that way. well as time went it became a known fact that they did come that way. what they should do is start counting off points for over restored cars.

  #5088  
Old 11-25-2016, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Held for Ransom View Post
I'm sure you meant to type 7/19/73. I was going to question why you received zero points, instead of partial because of correct PN. But understand you were not the one doing the scoring (I'm not one to question a judge but..., let's just leave it at that). With the shut down at the end of the '72 year and the late build of the '73 SD, I wonder how many they had stockpiled. '74 was a different PN.
DOH! you are correct Sir. I meant 73 not 71.

My brain hurts. Too much turkey...
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  #5089  
Old 11-25-2016, 10:17 PM
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This just in: the head judge at Vintage Certification just researched through one of the prior cars they judged a few years ago: the 1,700 mile SD T/A. And it has the exact same starter part number and date code! So, combined with the info from FrankG's car and mine, it looks like we just added some valuable info to the book on SD parts.

We are getting those points added back in to our score! Excellent!

  #5090  
Old 11-25-2016, 10:37 PM
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Sounds good!


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  #5091  
Old 11-25-2016, 11:08 PM
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Good to hear.

  #5092  
Old 11-25-2016, 11:29 PM
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Great Info! I'm still searching for one for my Fed 71 TA. Rare piece for sure.

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  #5093  
Old 11-26-2016, 07:02 AM
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Judge273 Judge273 is offline
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Glad to hear the flexibility of the Judges that backcheck previous inspection. Wonder if the others before got dinged get the update too?

A new perspective and precedent for correct part numbers and dates. 2 years before is now correct...wow

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  #5094  
Old 11-26-2016, 06:23 PM
Jim Rotella Jim Rotella is offline
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I just crawled under my '74 SD-455 and checked the codes on the starter and just as Held for Ransom stated, it has a different part number. It reads 1108226 and the date code is 3L51. That translates to 1973, December 5th, 1st shift. So I guess by the 1974 model year, they got more up-to-date with the Super Duty starters.

  #5095  
Old 11-26-2016, 06:59 PM
sdbob sdbob is offline
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I'll check mine ,just be awhile. Has original starter and alternator,water pump,etc.

  #5096  
Old 11-26-2016, 08:31 PM
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Very cool NJSteve. I'm going to check date on my original SD starter.

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1973 Trans Am 455 4spd, White/Black..Junior Gold POCI 2012
1974 Trans Am SD455 4spd. 29k mile unrestored survivor. Buccaneer Red/white
1948 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet V12. Restored.
1951 Willys Jeepster 6 cyl.
1968 Olds Cutlass W31 Ram Rod. Nocturne Blue, 4spd, stripper
1969 Hurst Olds survivor
1970 Challenger RT Convert . 383 4spd. Plum Crazy Purple/white
1978 Datsun 280Z Black Pearl edition
1983 Jeep CJ7 Renegade
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  #5097  
Old 11-26-2016, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank.g View Post
Anyone who still has an original fuel pump in their car may also still have original rubber fuel line. There are connectors that join the steel lines, of which there are two found at the fuel tank to the fuel lines, four that go from the fuel tank to the expansion tank behind the rear seat, two that go from the unibody to the subframe, and two that go from the subframe to the fuel pump. Change these before you even start your car again. I am aware of people who have lost their cars due to fire, because these hose connectors dry rotted and leaked. The original hoses cannot tolorate the present formulation of fuel. The four that go to the expansion tank are particularly problematic, because they are long, somewhat hidden, lead to the most interior components of the fuel system, are over the muffler, and carry vapors, which is the form gasoline needs to be to ignite.
I've been thinking about this and will change all mine this winter. Freaks me out. I hate today's fuel.

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1972 Trans Am Lucerne Blue /white 4spd M22
1973 Trans Am 455 4spd, White/Black..Junior Gold POCI 2012
1974 Trans Am SD455 4spd. 29k mile unrestored survivor. Buccaneer Red/white
1948 Lincoln Continental Cabriolet V12. Restored.
1951 Willys Jeepster 6 cyl.
1968 Olds Cutlass W31 Ram Rod. Nocturne Blue, 4spd, stripper
1969 Hurst Olds survivor
1970 Challenger RT Convert . 383 4spd. Plum Crazy Purple/white
1978 Datsun 280Z Black Pearl edition
1983 Jeep CJ7 Renegade
2013 Corvette Gran Sport
  #5098  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:43 AM
73brewstersd 73brewstersd is offline
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I still have my original starter as well. I will go take a look to see if its the same. My build date is very similar too, 6/20.

  #5099  
Old 11-29-2016, 07:29 PM
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Add another one to the 1B11 list. This is the starter from the 11,000 mile, formerly flame painted, SD455 4 speed that was at MCACN last year. So far everyone I have contacted with an unrestored 1973 SD455 with gapless provenance has yielded the same result of 1B11 date coded 1108436 starter.


  #5100  
Old 12-01-2016, 01:27 AM
birdsandgoats birdsandgoats is offline
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I am trying to find the correct water pump and starter for my 74 SD . It was built in the 7th month of 74 . The part number that is in the GM parts book shows it the same as the regular 400 and 455 for 73-74 1108500 . Does anyone have a late built 74 with the original starter on it. And what date code would the water pump be ? Would it be in 74 or earlier near the date codes of the heads and block?

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