[PonchoV8]

VIN 242379P154302 was a Warwick Blue GTO shell that I paid a deposit for to a member here on PY by the user name of 69 RA GTO.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...08#post2910808 The deposit was paid on 3-1-07. I had been in contact with Tim and was scheduled to pick this car up THIS Saturday (5-19-07) but was just notified today that it has been just been stolen. If anyone knows any info on this car please contact me [email protected] or Tim at 69 RA GTO.

Having paid my deposit in March, I expected to own this car and have already prepped a rolling frame for it--which is now of no use to me. :noidea: Even though this was not in my possession yet, and Tim has promised to send my deposit back to me, I'm not at all happy over having wasted my time stripping a frame and securing storage to get busted to nothing. I'm out two full days work, loss of use of my money and loss of storage layout too.

[GTO JOHN]

Doug, That is terrible news. How frustrating to do all that prep work now you have nothing to work with. Why would somebody steal the shell after all this time anyway? Tim had been trying to sell that car for 6+ months if I recall. Hopefully you can recoup your deposit and Tim can get some insurance claim. If your looking for a replacement car drop me a line. I've got several 69 GTO projects I would be willing to part with one of them. John

[PonchoV8]

Thanks John. I'm sure disappointed. I know my neighbors can't be happy about this thing being in my driveway. I'm thinkin I'm just gonna haul it off to the scrap yard today.

[69 RA GTO]

GTO Body was found and finally returned to me. A couple of kids in their late teens took it thinking they could build it up and put it together. Well they figured it had cooled off enough and started looking for parts and that is when someone tipped off the police and BAM... They got nailed. Anywho she is home safe again.

Tim

[steve v]

Glad to hear you got it back. Too many times there's no resolution to these deals. Was your trailer recovered as well?

I wondered if the local PD considers this auto theft or since it was just the car's shell, personal property theft?

[69 RA GTO]

Hi steve,

It was actually put outside hidden, or so we thought for just a couple of days so not in a trailer. The PD considered it an Auto Theft as it was a titled shell and had the vin numbers attatched. If the Vin number was NOT there, then they would have considered it personal prop which makes sense.

Tim

[PonchoV8]

You told me you weren't going to report it stolen. You told me that a couple of times. I wonder why no consideration is being given to me when you held my deposit for it for as long as you did?

[69 RA GTO]

Doug,

The more I thought about it, the more pissed off I got about it and decided to envolve the Police.... Sorry I am human and change my Mind.

Consideration???? I just got the car back. If you still want to buy it check the for sale section as you are more then welcome to still buy it. I figured you moved on since you said you had another one lined up and its been 7 months. It was STOLEN a couple days before you came up here, I called you as soon as I found out, I returned your $100 Deposit ASAP to you, I called the police and got them envolved, someone tipped them off, they cought the stupid punk kids that stole it, I got my shell back. I told you I was very sorry, what more could I have done? Nothing that I am aware of.

It appears you are still angry about this, I am truley SORRY as it was out of my control as I did not ask for this to happen. If you want to talk more about this you are more then welcome to give me a shout and we can go from there. The car is for sale and you are more then welcome to purchase it if you are still interested.

Sorry Again,
Tim

[PonchoV8]

I'm welcome to give you almost double the original agreed to price IOW. Something tells me I'm not getting what I bargained for. I spent hours and hours stripping this frame for a car you said was mine--that I paid a deposit on. Now it's sitting outside wasting space, I've wasted several weekends removing parts and now you want to tell me to give you $1500 for a shell I already bought for $800 once?

[Ron Landis]

you boys need to settle this in private. Poncho, you weren't the least bit considerate of him losing the car and he DID return your deposit, so it seems like your say in the matter is history. If you were ready to junk the frame, doesn't sound like you had much invested anyway and now, by rights, the car should be registered as a theft recovery, right? Why would you want it anyway? Just trying to understand how you are the victim here. Makes me no nevermind. Ron

[PonchoV8]

Originally Posted by jegstek

you boys need to settle this in private. Poncho, you weren't the least bit considerate of him losing the car and he DID return your deposit, so it seems like your say in the matter is history. If you were ready to junk the frame, doesn't sound like you had much invested anyway and now, by rights, the car should be registered as a theft recovery, right? Why would you want it anyway? Just trying to understand how you are the victim here. Makes me no nevermind. Ron

No other people need to know the deal with this car and this guy. I spent HOURS every weekend and after work missing an annual family birthday event because of what happened--not to mention the two days I took off of work for stripping to make it by the deadline--all the way to headliner rods I stripped it. I paid to store a car I had on my trailer so that I could pick up my lemans to strip down to the frame--so that I would have something to put this GTO shell on. I spent $2000 on another car just to help with parts for this shell to make it complete. My wife is not at all happy with Tim about us missing that event because of this guy and his deal. You want to tell me exactly why he wouldn't report the thing stolen? He lost nothing and now he's back up and running doubling his price now that things have cooled off. How is that an injury for him? I was injured. If you had sense, you'd see that I'm the only person that posted that the car was stolen. He wouldn't even report it stolen to the police after I paid on the car. Why is that? I find that curious. You have some other point you want to be wrong about?

After the theft, I had to unload the stripped frame in my driveway to go get the $2000 car in Nashville to take to someone else that agreed to buy it on payments to recoup my money--since I couldn't use the car anymore--just so I could go get my 70 out of paid storage to keep on my trailer where it is still sitting.

There's more!In mid Feb when we cut this deal, this guy wasted a bunch of my time telling me all about the car. I spent time talking to him on the telephone and going round and round about all the details, then when I told him I'm ready to commit to buy it, he claimed someone else was wanting to buy it and he wanted to talk to this guy first. WTF?! That was the clue I should have taken to walk away. When I told him I didn't like wasting my time for a car that isn't for sale, he told me what I wanted to hear I guess. He told me he'd sell me the car for sure "It's your's".. So I said fine, how much money up front. He said none. Well that's weird. No money yet? Maybe it isn't mine then. Maybe he's going to wait on the other guy? I explained that if I don't have to pay a deposit how do I know we've got a deal? I explained later that I have to strip a car to the frame for the shell he has--I don't want to waste my time on a chance it's not official. So he agreed to $100 and $700 on pickup. Tim told me he's needing money in his personal life (but didn't want my deposit?). I sent a check out with the memo stating it was for the exact car--he cashed it so it was official. Oh yeah, earlier he sent a scan of a title that didn't match the VIN (blue colored)--then he sent a title that did match (duplicate) and explained that he mistakenly sent a title from a parts car. More strange stuff, I'm leary but believed him at that point even though he's acting flaky. I sent money out on March 1st and started stripping my lemans to the frame in my free time.
I bought another complete Warwick Blue 69 GTO auto with a a 4 spd console and pedals with some trim for $2000 so that I could use that car for more parts to make it complete. So time goes on and he emails me that now his dad wants this thing out of his shop. I said okay I'll be there the weekend following the upcoming one. No problem he said, it was his dad complaining or it would be fine. The next week I emailed him that I'm coming for sure that weekend. Then he emailed me back that the shell got stolen and he isn't going to report it stolen. It isn't even titled in his name. I should've expected the car to 'disappear'. Too many strange things.

I called him and he reiterated that he will not be reporting it stolen. I have a recording of the phone call for proof. I listened to it just last week. Very strange, and I suspected what really happened is that it isn't really stolen. He either was trying to get me to walk away from my deposit--because someone else is on the hook for the car, or there is a problem with the title. So what the hell am I going to do with all this crap for a car that got stolen from me too--not to mention the hours I put into stripping the frame, storing the parts, buying a $2000 car hours away, putting my 70 in storage? He sent my deposit back--Oh yeah, I had to email a second time to get it rolling though.

So I posted here about the car being stolen while I waited nicely for my deposit. He still didn't report it stolen. He oddly wasn't concerned enough to report it with the law--he didn't even post here. He said on the phone that it was okay that I did post here though. Thanks--seeing as how I have paid money on the car.
And yet somehow the police find a car, decide the car was stolen and return to a person that it isn't titled to? Yeah right! This smells and you other people have been informed of my experience. Anybody keeping track of just how much I put into this deal and now it's back for sale?

Tell you what, next time you go to the move into a new place, spend the time taking out the old stuff instead of attending an annual birthday event, renting storage, bagging up all the old stuff that you'll need for the new stuff, buy an extra car, send off your money and then find out later that you wasted your time because someone claims it's not available anymore, let me know how you feel. Then consider that the seller won't report it stolen. Oh, but I can buy it [b]again[b/]--at double the price. That ought to make it all better.


Now surprise, surprise, the car turns back and his buddy Ron attacks the guy that got it broken off in him.
Tim, you ranted on this site about how Pontiac people suck. You said you were selling your stuff and leaving the Pontiac world because of those people. Guess who you are?

[6704gto]

wow this all wrong

[69 RA GTO]

Doug,

This is very simple and this WILL be my last post as this is just getting out of control. If you want to buy the car, then it is for sale since I got it back. If I do not sell it then I will keep it and restore it and have fun with it. If you are not interested then move on. This is not the place for this. I will say it again to you, I am very SORRY to you and your wife as to what happened. I cannot change what happened, if I could I would. I could go through and answer/reply to your statements but I am not because it just is not worth it as no matter what I say to you I will be the A**hole in your eyes and will be at complete fault. You have your opion and that is fine, we all have opions as I have one about you as well.

In Parting, I am not answering anymore on this thread, nor and I going to look at it. It is a dead thread, and I am truley sorry and I do not know what else to day. Have a good life Doug and all the best on your project cars.

Regards,
Tim

[PonchoV8]

This is the place for this, because these are the accounts and conclusion to what occurred with this car. You didn't start a topic looking for a shell with title that was stolen, I did. Now it's 'found'.
If you'd perfer I start a topic in the Pontiac Business Exchange with the exact information as here, I can do that.
I think I've made my point though. I know my wife will accept your apology. I do as well, but that doesn't mean I'll forget it. No, I will never consider dealing with you again and I consider it an insult to offer me the shell again at double the price.

[tajunkman]

Car should be offered to Doug at the original price Simple as that..

[Rusty]

Well this opened my eyes to 69 RA GTO. Thanks to Poncho for exposing this fraud! And yes I did say fraud! As someone in law enforcement, I'm quite convinced that you, 69RA GTO are nothing more than a scam artist. I think everyone on this site should read this and stop conducting any and all business with you. I don't for a second believe that this shell was stolen. You should be ashamed of yourself for not manning up to a deal. As my dad would say, "You will never have to worry about a sore back, because you don't have a spine!"

Hopefully 69RA GTO gets what he deserves. Someday he'll piss off, or screw over the wrong guy.

Poncho, if you'd really like to pursue it, and I know I would, just out of spite. I would recommend contacting the police dept. that would've taken the stolen auto report. First off, see if the snake even made a report or if he's just full of crap. Check and see if they've had any run-ins of similar occurance with this guy. If he actually did report it stolen and it was recovered by the police, then that will be easy to find out through calling them and checking some records.

Either way 69RA GTO is a scumbag and you are absolutely right to post that here. Hopefully more people get the word and don't do business with this guy.

[Rusty]

Another suspicious part...what did the kids do with the "steel beams" that he alleged were stolen as well?

[GTOnly70]

Indeed, a man of principle would have offered the car back to Doug for the original agreed purchase price.

The conclusion here is obvious.

[Jimbro727]

hmmm

I'd be interested in knowing if Doug gets any information from the police department that validates Tim's claims. Then maybe it can be determined if this was fraud or just one giant misunderstanding. Good luck man

[1969 Ram Air]

That car was stolen. I talked to 69 RA GTO after it was taken and he told me about it and had no reason to lie to me. I've done business with him many times and he always treated me well.