[JoePapa]

I've got the Muncie M22 in my '69 Firebird. The shifter is the Hurst Super Comp. and corresponding linkage. The problem I have sometimes is when I'm racing and shift from second to third the linkage gets bound and ends up getting stuck in 2nd gear. It's very easy to fix from under the car but by then the race is over. I've called Hurst and they just say to make sure the 1/4" alignment dowel slips in the alignment hole easy. Been there done that - sometimes it's good and sometimes it's off just a little. I'm thinking that the shifter rods may be starting to show their 8 year old age and starting to flex a little.

Has anyone on here over come this problem or have any insight that may be helpful? Would it be possible to weld angle iron to the rods in critical areas to strengthen them and help prevent flex or would welding make the rod brittle?


Thanks in advance!

[Jurassicgto]

This guy makes a pretty nice hurst setup. On my wish list.
www.m-22.com/m22/

[engineer]

be sure ends are tight, rods not bent and installed correctly and bushings are not worn. never had problem until one of these things occurred.

[rtanner]

joe ive had that problem the past. it might be linkage related science that out first. my problem after tearing down the trans was i had a broken synchro brass ring in second gear didnt really show up shifting first to second but it bind the synchro assembly when trying to come out of second under full power. a indicator this is the problem is if you speed shift second to third under normal driving and dont have the problem. it only shows up under full power it probably is the synchro.

[JoePapa]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll double check the bushings but they were in good shape. I've actually added washers to force a really snug fit. It was almost difficult getting the spring loaded retainers in there to hold the rod ends on the levers - good and snug for sure. The rods could be bent - not sure because they are all pre-bent. The piece of this puzzle that makes me wonder if they're flexing is that I'll adjust it to zero using the 1/4" guide rod but here recently it looks as is if the 1-2 rod is slightly out of alignment. The only way that could happen is if it was bent or not installed properly. I've checked this thing so many times it's possible I need someone else to proof read my paper (so to say) but I'm pretty certain it was right on previously.

My history has been that I'll adjust it and then she'll be fine for a while (several months) and then it'll start acting up again. Each time it happens, it's at the track but not all full power shifts result in a bind.

So far the only consistency is that it's good at first then degrades over time which is why I was thinking it may be flexing and need some reinforcment. I just don't know how welding a hardend rod would be - I know a very good welder locally so I'll hit him up too.

Jurrassicgto - thanks for the link, I'm checking them out now.

[rtanner]

hey joe what tracks do you race at?

[Half-Inch Stud]

I doubt the linkage has a problem or is a problem.

STRONGLY suspicious of the Muncie Blocking ring ability to get-into-gear while under 455 WOT load. Good luck with that. Take the Munice apart and replace the Blcoking rings with the one fellas here recommend. I used over-counter factory type parts and it felt GREAT on the street. It did not solve MY 2-3 upshift under WOT though. So, I figure more and better upgrade needs to be done, and I dunno what. I went TH400 and never needed to look back.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Use the steel bushing washer kit. Make sure you have the good spring loaded clips, not cotter pins.
Back in the day I use to lead the 2-3 shift in the adjustment. Hurst to get certain shifter and linkages to fit had rather wild curving linkage which promoted flex. Also the thin rods are the major contributing factor. I used to weld inforcement straps to the Hurst rods for more support. Mig has less heat displacement
Also engine/frame motor mount flex will lock up the shifter even thou both are connected to the same unit.


Best shifter I had back then when I raced MP with a 68 Camaro was the Verti gate, but required cutting the tunnel hole larger.

You can go inside your tranny and shim up all the gear sets to .010. Big, big difference. I use to use the BW 4 spd dogs as the 3 keyways were wider and shifted better. Plus they were harder. Make sure you have the proper clearance on the slider and brass syncro. Most after time ride right up against the steel teeth which will cause issues. The input shaft always needed a lot of shims to get rid of the endplay.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I had the HURST Competition Plus with nice-looking black rods, and the stainless bushings. I had rusty reinforced sleeved rods that sat in a box of shift rods. I definietly had the optional 2-3 upshift under WOT. So I can go figure on rod-flex.

I had dead-even shifter aligns as DICTATED by the Muncie Inside cover (super-stiff lock-gates). I had NO lead alignment (getting to 3 before pulling 2), I had no lag ( pulling from 2 earlier that getting to 3).

so P-dude shows a good point...if you got the 2-to-3 bind, then you gots a chance to dial-out the #3/4 shift-rod flex...and see what gives under load.

[JoePapa]

You know I didn't think about different blocking rings or shiming gear sets. I'll have to do some searching on those topics.

Pdude - I've got the steel washer kit and springs retaining clips, not cotter pins. I've also got the wavy washers and regular washers to make the connection as tight as possible on both ends of the shifter rod. When you welded a reinforcement strap to the rods, did that help?


rtanner - I usually race at San Antonio Raceway or Temple Raceway. Temple's closer so my quick trips are usually there but SAR is a much nicer facility.

[fasteddy]

I had a 67 Bird with the Muncie. The stock shifter would do that because it was stupidly mounted to the cross-member and not the trans. Engine would torque up and put the POS in a bind. Put in a C+ and never had another problem-street or strip. I would definitely check out your shifter installation and "pieces-parts" before you panic and pull out the tranny. One other thing you might look at is the side plate mechanism and shifter forks for obvious wear or bends. This you can do without pulling the tranny out of course. FWIW

[Jack Peters]

fasteddy, you shifter sounds like a muncie not a Hurst as the muncie mounts that way but hurst always is attached to the trans. What was the shifter out of?

[fasteddy]

Jack, the 67 had a Muncie shifter in it from the factory. I put in a Hurst Comp+ and it mounted to the trans tail housing. The C+ never failed me.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I had a 68 Z-28 new and the shifter on it mounted to the crossmember. Alway locked up on the 2-3 shift. Bad design made for Granny shifting. Changed to the Hurst and still had minor issues back in the day. Going into the tranny and re-inforcing the rods made a big difference, but 7600 rpm shifts weren't always there. And no rev limiter back them LOL. Went to the vertigate. Then U had the diaphram clutch sticking to the floor back then at 7600. LOL.
3 finger Hays with a 10.8 for a 10.5 flywheel cured that problem

[fasteddy]

Dude, LMAO. I remebered the clutch thing after you typed it. It was a really strange feeling having the clutch pedal stick to the floor. I went to a 3 finger as well. I think it was a Zoom or something like that. It was purple so it was faster too.

[Jack Peters]

fasteddy,
Thought maybe you got the shifter from another vehicle is why I stated what I did. I thrashed my OEM shifter for over 40k miles and all I ever did was adjust once about every 10K. Replaced the nylon with metal bushings. Torched the clutch at 21k and just replaced it with an oem. Never had any shifting problems w/M-22, 455HO except 1/2 because I pulled to the left and it would hang up.

[JoePapa]

The shifter I have is a comp. plus and it bolts to the tail shaft of the tranny, not the cross member. Sounds like the easiest place for me to start is with the shifter rod, make sure the adjustment is sound then weld a reinforcement strap to it. I'll double check the mounts when I pull the tranny for the clutch job. The tranny mount is a poly job and the motor mounts are factory but not old.

[Jurassicgto]

JoePapa, did you ever solve this problem? I've got the same symptoms now. Stuck in
2nd under high load/torque.

[JoePapa]

Yes I did, sorry I didn't update this thread. I'll snap some pictures and post what I did.

Basically, while the tranny was out I connected the shifter handle and moved it through the gears just watching the levers and rods. What I found was that the rods would flex just a little. I picked up some small 3/8 or 1/2" angle iron and proceeded to weld it to the linkage rods. My idea was to reinforce as much of the rod as I could to prevent any flex. I haven't had the issue ever since - this fixed it.

I'll get some pictures tonight and post them up for you. Works like a champ!!

[Silver Judge]

I would like to see the pictures of the mods that you do JoePapa.

Is there more than one style of linkage rods for Muncie M20/M21/M22 4 speeds ?
Mine are pretty beefy and came with an old M22 I picked up. I'd bet that they are about 40 years old.

I have since upgraded to a supercase M22 as well, my SD Performance motor was too much for the other regular M22 I had.

Thanks for the info