[67drake]

Hi guys,
It's getting to the point where I have to decide on a cam.Here's my set up
71' 400,going in a GTO
Quadrajet on a stock intake
71' 96 heads will be gasket matched with basic port/chamber work
block standard bore,zero decked,stock pistons (4 valve relief with the dimple in the middle)
stock exhaust logs with full 2 1/2" duals
Wide ratio Muncie 4-speed and 3.23 posi
After head milling CR will be around 9.0-9.2
I am looking more for a high torque cam as opossed to a high peak HP cam.Idle is not really a concern as I have the 4-speed and no power brakes,but I do have A/C.The car is driven on the street but I do take it to the track a few times a year for fun.I also don't want to spin the engine above 5000-5200 RPM range.
So here is what cams I think would work good.
Crower 60241 276/281 215/221 .457/.464 lift 112LSA
Summit 2801 272/282 214/224 .442/.465 lift 112LSA
Comp XE262 262/270 218/224 .462/.470 110LSA
The Crower is my top pick,Comp last.I have read a few complaints about about the XE262 not living up to peoples expectations,and power dropping off at 4500 or so,but I've read a few good things also.I've yet to hear any complaints of the Crower or Summit.
Any of you cam guru's care to comment on my picks?I would also like to here from anyone who is running,or has run one of these 3 cams in a SIMILAR SET UP to mine,and what they thought of the cams.
Also,am I being too conservative(I tend to be)? I was thinking for awhile about running the Crower 60916 after milling more off the heads to get the CR up to 9.5 (heads are being rebuilt and milled anyway).I did a search on this cam on a few Pontiac sites and it seems to be a highly recommened cam,but I just think it might want to make power well past my 5200 RPM cut off,and sacrifice too much of my bottom end. I think running it with my stock exhaust manifolds (which are staying for now) might not make it the best pick for me?
Thanks for any input,Drake

[wilcar]

With your combo I would think that the 60916 would work well. This cam in my 9.5 455 4 speed 3.31 65 GTO was a super mild cam and would be very mild in your combo. It would still give you great low and midrange in my opinion. My 60916 idled like an 068 cam. I believe Bruce Wilke on this forum runs the 60916 in his wife's 400 powered car and has stated it is a very mild cam. I just do not think it would be too much cam for your combo especially with the 4 speed. Would be worth a try in my opinion.

[Ken -Ace- Brewer]

Go with the 60242 NOT the 60241. With a 60242 you can make anywhere between 380hp - 400 hp. The 60242 is one of our most poular cams we sell. JMHO.

Be Cool,
Ace

[67drake]

Thanks for the info guys.
Won't the 60916 and 60242 want to keep pulling well past 5200 though? I've read they will make power up to 6000RPM in a 400 like mine(except with RA manifolds or headers).I'm not afraid of "too much HP", just thinking I could use that power down at a lower RPM seeing as how I don't want to rev higher than 5200,or so.

[ericwy]

My Howards Cam is about the same as the Summit you listed.
In my 400 it produces loads of low end torque. Greg Ducato at Phoenix Transmission drove my car for a couple days during the installation of a th700-R4 and he could not believe how much torque it had. Even in OD with TQ locked with a 3.08 axle turning only 1500 rpm at 60mph its still pulling 15" vacuum. IMO, the Summit is perfect for the street not racing as it runs out of breath around 5200rpm.

[Ken -Ace- Brewer]

On my dyno the 60242 is all over by 4800-5200 rpm depending on heads.

Be Cool,
Ace

[pete315]

I'm rebuilding a 73 455 with 71 #96 heads. which cam should I use. car is to be street driven. Summit 2801 or the 068 cam?

[i82much]

I'm no expert but ... if no power brakes, why not run something with a tighter lobe sep - vacuum/idle quality less important, right?

Your car is a 4 speed also - don't need all the bottom end grunt and 2 - "peakier" torque curve matters less with the extra gear.

[67drake]

Originally Posted by i82much

I'm no expert but ... if no power brakes, why not run something with a tighter lobe sep - vacuum/idle quality less important, right?

Your car is a 4 speed also - don't need all the bottom end grunt and 2 - "peakier" torque curve matters less with the extra gear.

You are right.And that's why I posted this question. I tend to be very conservative.
After talking to "Ace" today on the phone I am leaning towards the 60242.Before posting this question I was thinking that my RPM range would be too high with the 60242 or 60916 grinds.I also talked to someone else who is running the 60916 in a 400 similar to mine and he said the power is done in the low 5000's.So I'm glad I posted this question.I was kind of on the fence on this one.
Thanks all who replied so far.
Drake

[67drake]

Originally Posted by pete315

I'm rebuilding a 73 455 with 71 #96 heads. which cam should I use. car is to be street driven. Summit 2801 or the 068 cam?

Give Ken a call and he'll take care of you.Click on the link in his signature for his #.His shop is closed till Jan 7th though.

[67drake]

Just figured I'd update my old thread in case it helps anyone doing a search in the future.
I just ordered the 60242 that Ken "Ace" Brewer suggested above. Since posting this thread I've decided to update the stock bottom end,so I can safely spin the engine higher than with my original cam choices. I had a hard time choosing between the 60916 or the 60242 since they are so similar. I chose the 242 because it should work a little better with the 9.1-9.2 CR that I will be running. Seems like the minimum for the 916 is around 9.5.
I'll update again when I get the engine on the dyno or to the track.
Drake

[Z Code 400]

Just had some feedback today from a local guy who used one of my .467"/.467" - 220°/226° @ .050" - 111.5° LSA hydraulic flat tappets (0° overalp @ .050") in a similarly equipped 406. Hasn't been dyno'd yet, but he reports it is still pulling at 5700 when he shifts.

That should give you an idea of what to expect...Robert

[Cliff R]

It is impossible to "gauge" the rpm range of a camshaft in any engine combination from "seat of the pants" testing. Camshafts simply don't cause a situation where an engine hits a given rpm and the power falls off to nothing.

We often see dyno charts where a particular camshaft made peak power at 5200 or 5300rpm's, but is still making PLENTY of power at 5800 or 6000rpm's. One simply can't "feel" a loss of a couple of HP in a narrow rpm range up near the shift point, at least accurately enough to say a cam has the engine "pulling" hard to at least X rpm's, etc.

My own 455 will rip your head slam off to at least 5800rpm's, with no noticable lag or significant power losses anyplace. Even so, on the dyno it made peak hp at 5400rpm's. We shift at 5000rpm's at the track, and only see a few hundreths improvement shifting any higher in the rpm range.

We've installed and tested the Crower 60916 cam, and the 60243 grind. In 400's at 10 to 1 or slightly higher static compression, manual trans (auto with 3000rpm stall), at least 3.73 gears, the 228/234/112 cam is a very, very good choice. Expect to make peak hp around 5500-5600rpm's, and up near 425 hp with unported large valve heads......Cliff

[steve]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

We've installed and tested the Crower 60916 cam, and the 60243 grind. In 400's at 10 to 1 or slightly higher static compression, manual trans (auto with 3000rpm stall), at least 3.73 gears, the 228/234/112 cam is a very, very good choice. Expect to make peak hp around 5500-5600rpm's, and up near 425 hp with unported large valve heads......Cliff

cliff,

how do you think that 60916 will perform with a lower compression ratio ? like 9.0:1 or even 8.0:1 ???

i am dropping the 60916 in an otherwise stock 400 (small intake valve, large exhaust), with a 4 speed and 3.90 rear.

it is only a temporary combo (not concerned about max performance)...just dont want it to be a complete dog...maybe i need to bump the CR on the cheap somehow ???

[Cliff R]

Steve, at a solid 10 to 1 static cr, we only see apprx 12" vacuum at idle speed, with a very slight lope. The "real" power curve starts at apprx 2800rpm's. With a lower compression engine I'd think seriously about using a set of Rhoad's lifters with that cam, especially down around 9 to 1. At 8 to 1 static I'd use the Crower 210/221/112 cam instead...FWIW....Cliff

[steve]

thanks cliff ! so the vacuum is the bigger problem ? i dont use vacuum to run any accessories....or are you saying that it will have no power under 2800 rpms without more compression ?

[Cliff R]

There is power below 2800rpm's, but the cam really doesn't start coming into its power range till then. We have had a few folks try to use that cam in 400's with auto trans and stock or very mild converters, with less than desirable results. Much like trying to run the RAIV cam in a 400 engine with 2.73 gears!......Cliff

[steve]

how about a 4 speed with 3.90 ?? BTW shaker455 has my 3bbl you plated for a little testing !! i am intersted to hear what he says.

[Cliff R]

What sort of "testing", dyno? I wouldn't think any tracks are open up his way this time of year.

I'm curious as to how well those huge q-jet looking secondary fuel supply nozzles work vs an annular or downleg booster?.....Cliff

[steve]

he never said anything about a dyno. he said he just wanted to see how it worked. i am thinking jeff could tell me a lot just by looking at it !!!! so i guess in your opinion that 60916 is all wrong for my 400 build...thanks for the input. i'll call crower and see what they say.