[68bird400HO]

I have heard that there are differences in the doors around the outer door handle from the earlier cars to the later ones. I know the earlier cars had a longer, heavier handle but were there any differences in the molded area of the door across the years?

[2manyT/A'S]

As I understand it,the outer skin was the same for the full 70-81 Firebird run.
The 77 & newer smaller door handles WILL fit the early doors & vice versa.
The inner door frame changed in 75,the most noticeable change was the inner door release & surrounding area.

[x-bird2]

until someone can provide pictures with rulers etc. showing otherwise, every door that i've measured across the years were the same in the pocket area. just the handle was changed as far as i've ever seen. i'm getting to the point on this one that i may make a play doh mold of an early door and carry it with me.

[bird72]

These door interchange threads always get me going when I read them. I often see people recommending using later doors on early cars. I cringe when I read that. Here is what I know:

1) Early doors are thicker sheet metal on skins. (Big difference to me)

2) Early doors have totally different stampings for inner part of door that door panel attaches to. You CAN NOT put an early door panel on a later door. More importantly, there is no way the early inside door releases will work on a later door. They are in slightly different locations for one thing, beyond the bolt up differeneces.

3) If you don't believe me, just take an early door panel and place it on a later door. Then try lineing up the door release............

How do I know?

I'm an idiot who bolted a later door on an early car (3 person job) and spent a bunch of time aligning it, then tried the door panel... duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People that say use a later door on an early car have never tried it themselves and offer BAD advice. As for the outside door releases, that part is interchangeable (early big ones vs later smaller ones) but that is the LEAST of it all......

If you ever see an early 70-73 bird with 78 door panels, the above stuff is WHY they did. They bought a later door (maybe on advice from experts on the net) and then made it work.........

If anyone has actually done the fab work to make a later door work on an early car, please enlighten me, and honestly post how many hours labor it took you to do so.......

[2manyT/A'S]

WAY BACK......, in the mid 80's,I replaced the rusty doors on my 70 T/A with a pair of real CLEAN 77 T/A doors.
I installed the ORIGINAL 1970 door panels & used the 77 inside release escutcheons.
As I recall,they fit just fine & looked GOOD once you got past the fact that the plastic escutcheons were NOT correct.

[tajunkman]

Originally Posted by bird72

These door interchange threads always get me going when I read them. I often see people recommending using later doors on early cars. I cringe when I read that. Here is what I know:

1) Early doors are thicker sheet metal on skins. (Big difference to me)

2) Early doors have totally different stampings for inner part of door that door panel attaches to. You CAN NOT put an early door panel on a later door. More importantly, there is no way the early inside door releases will work on a later door. They are in slightly different locations for one thing, beyond the bolt up differeneces.

3) If you don't believe me, just take an early door panel and place it on a later door. Then try lineing up the door release............

How do I know?

I'm an idiot who bolted a later door on an early car (3 person job) and spent a bunch of time aligning it, then tried the door panel... duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People that say use a later door on an early car have never tried it themselves and offer BAD advice. As for the outside door releases, that part is interchangeable (early big ones vs later smaller ones) but that is the LEAST of it all......

If you ever see an early 70-73 bird with 78 door panels, the above stuff is WHY they did. They bought a later door (maybe on advice from experts on the net) and then made it work.........

If anyone has actually done the fab work to make a later door work on an early car, please enlighten me, and honestly post how many hours labor it took you to do so.......

Not trying to fight,just my experience --

I have used late 70s doors on a couple early cars. The only problem I had was the inside latch.I dealt with it like 2manyTAs and used the later escutcheon. Could have cut and grafted the old inner handle pocket in the newer door, but I was a hick.

The door handle hole and window crank hole in the early door panels (70 and 73) lined right up on the newer door

I even found factory dimples in the later door, to mark where to drill holes for the metal bracket for the lower doorpanel/armrest.

[bird72]

Well, I guess if vastly incorrect later door releases don't bother you, then it is OK! personally that is pretty Mickey Mouse when we are here talking about restoring rare vintage cars. But, to each their own, that is what makes this world great. All I remember is slipping the early door panel on the later door, taking one look and unbolting the door off and giving it away after paying 100 bucks for it, I was so mad. It would be like putting RTS dash inserts on an early car, or late 70's window trim and pillars on an early one, sure you can, but WHY?

I'll still wait for someone that has done the fab work and can honestly say how many hours they have into the swap. BTW, aren't the release rods different?

And in the end, you will have a door, that all you have to do is tap on or shut to hear the thin sheet metal vs the early thick sheet metal.

It all really comes down to if you care about correct. Advising someone to go incorrect is still BAD advice in my book, and that just happened on the other door thread recently, the guy went "great" and off to buy a later door..... that just is wrong in my opinion.

[tajunkman]

Blue one is a 71 Black one is a 78.Love, Mickey LOL

[tajunkman]

pics

[tajunkman]

more pics

[Transam Stripper]

Junkman your my hero. I have sold I don't know how many doors to many good body guys. Never had a complaint about fit. But I'm a STRIPPER not a FIXER.

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by bird72

I'm an idiot who bolted a later door on an early car (3 person job)

Really? Me and my floor jack do it by ourslves.... LOL


I really don't think that it would be a very big job to cut the inner structure out of a trashed early door and weld it in a late door. Problem solved, but small problems for some are big problems for others.......JMHO

[x-bird2]

i've always used the 1-man floor jack/wood block/shop towel method. when clearing out my late father in law's garage, i found parts of a GM door removal/hanging tool with partial instructions. big beefy piece of flat stock with various holes and rods. haven't figured out if i have all the parts to it yet. i'm still hunting for an acceptable driver's side door. if i need to cut in the inner from an early one to make a good late door work, so be it, no big deal.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by bird72

Well, I guess if vastly incorrect later door releases don't bother you, then it is OK! personally that is pretty Mickey Mouse when we are here talking about restoring rare vintage cars. But, to each their own, that is what makes this world great. All I remember is slipping the early door panel on the later door, taking one look and unbolting the door off and giving it away after paying 100 bucks for it, I was so mad. It would be like putting RTS dash inserts on an early car, or late 70's window trim and pillars on an early one, sure you can, but WHY?

I'll still wait for someone that has done the fab work and can honestly say how many hours they have into the swap. BTW, aren't the release rods different?

And in the end, you will have a door, that all you have to do is tap on or shut to hear the thin sheet metal vs the early thick sheet metal.

It all really comes down to if you care about correct. Advising someone to go incorrect is still BAD advice in my book, and that just happened on the other door thread recently, the guy went "great" and off to buy a later door..... that just is wrong in my opinion.

When I mentioned that I had installed later doors on my 70 T/A,I was NOT suggesting that they would be considered a proper replacement for a 70-74 Firebird,ESPECIALLY a T/A.
When I did that,even 20 years ago,nice clean,STRAIGHT 70-74 doors without any RUST or FILLER were hard to find,but it's 10 times WORSE today.
The T/A I installed them on was NOT a pristeen example,it was ACTUALLY my winter "beater" at the time.(RA III/auto #'s match inc. carb) The replacement doors & the hood were probably the only pieces of sheet metal on the whole car that were GOOD!

However,if I was building a 70-74 Firebird & HAD to use the later style doors,I would rather use the incorrect escutcheons than have a patch of an early door panel latch welded into an otherwise NICE clean unmolested door.
There is nothing that looks WORSE than pulling off an interior panel & finding out that Dr. Frankenstien has been there BEFORE you!

Everbody has different ideas/criteria for when they are building their cars,but if you have a true dual exhaust on your bird instead of a transverse/crossflow style,radial tires instead of factory bias ply & a replacement 78-81 dash pad or one that has been hacked for a modern stereo,later style door release escutcheons on 1977 doors are pretty insignificant in comparison.

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by 2manyT/A'S

However,if I was building a 70-74 Firebird & HAD to use the later style doors,I would rather use the incorrect escutcheons than have a patch of an early door panel latch welded into an otherwise NICE clean unmolested door.
There is nothing that looks WORSE than pulling off an interior panel & finding out that Dr. Frankenstien has been there BEFORE you!

I really think that I could do it without you being able to tell without stiking your head inside the door. But we all know that somebody's head won't fit in those little openings. LOL

[273tas]

just bought a 1977 door[100.00] to replace my rusted one on one of my 1973 trans am
will let you know how it goes//// I will stiil be looking for a correct door
as they are hard to find but at least I will be Sunday driving with a decent door
THANKS to those who give advice

The inner tail panel has been another adventure in its self lol

Thanks again
Bill

[BuckeyeOcean71Bird]

273tas did you get that door mounted? how did it work out for you?

[ta-kid]

Gotta love those door debates.Anybody serving popcorn,or is this show over?LOL

[72blackbird]

I have a quick door-related question, since we're on the subject of doors- where can I get the rods that connect the door handle to the latch mechanism? Is this strictly a junkyard deal, GM still carry them, or can I get repops?

Geno

[273tas]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeOcean71Bird

273tas did you get that door mounted? how did it work out for you?

just got finished with the tail panel plan to start the door work next week
will send you a pm update and let you know