[MOJO Catalina]

I got ahold of a set of Ralley gauges for my center dash.

The gauges came with a pink wire, a blue and a green.

Is the pink 12 V power?

Looks like the blue would be to the oil sensor and the green to be the Temp sensor.

I don't want to blow up perfectly good gauges and so it would be great if somebody can confirm this for me.

Also, can anyone tell me what sensors to get and where?

My local auto parts store doesn't carry the sensors for 1963-67 ralley guages.

[421gto]

not sure if the info you need is in here or not but it might help out

wiring pt1
wiring pt2

cheers
si

[Deadhead]

FWIW, I have the same dilema on my '63. For what the sensors etc, are going to cost, I think I am going to go with aftermarket gauges similar to what Pitts '64 did on his. They fit right in.

[MOJO Catalina]

Thanks for the scematic. I'll need it for other things but no help for this project. It just shows how to hook up the idiot lights but not the needle gauges.
I guess I'll have to appeal to someone who has these guages in their car. Anybody know anybody I can ask personally to take a look for me? 63 & 64 are the same I'm told.

[Ziggy]

MOJO:

You have a very rare set of gauges. The hook-ups are the same for either a '63 or '64 car. The only difference in the gauges is that the '63 set uses a 80 pound oil pressure gauge whereas the '64 uses a 60 pound oil pressure gauge.

Here is my two cents, for what it is worth on the oil transducer. I will give some input for you on the '63 package and hopefully help out BigAquaBonney on his earlier posted question on the '64 gauge package for a part number. Here you go.....

I have done a considerable amount of research on both the oil pressure transducers used from 1963 through 1967. I needed to do this because I have two 63's and one 64 gauge packages (installed in individual dash pods) and was tired of getting "the pegging" results that many see when an aftermarket transducer is used. Others may have been sucessful in finding matches, I have not.

I will start with the early ones.

The 1963 full-size oil pressure sending unit, is an "AC" unit that is stamped 80 lbs., and is actually GM Part # 1506251. (See picture below). Later 63's were also "AC" units and were stamped with the P/N and 80 lbs., (some of the earlier "AC" units only had the 80 lbs. stamped on them.) In all my years of searching, the 80 lbs. indication was always stamped. In 1963, Vulcan Motor Products out of Newark, NJ also made an aftermarket replacement sending unit, OPV-9. The insulator tended to crack on these if they were over-tightened - you can still find some of these around but be very careful as some cracked ones were most likely returned when the installer inadvertently over-tightened them. You will not get a correct reading on them if they have a cracked insulator. In the past, I have seen pricing on the original '63 "AC" units in the $100 plus range for each. It was the first year for the "pontiac gauge package" and these units are getting harder and harder to find.The Vulcan units have been priced in the $40 plus range. I haven't seen them on ebay in the last year or so. But, I will check my storage cabinent. I may have a few spares of each and might consider selling some of them. Please do not bombard me with requests, when I find them I will let you know. I think I also have spare 63 and 64 gauge packages too. But, I need to check.

The 1964 full-size oil pressure sending unit, stamped 60 lbs., is GM Part # 1506191. It has both the P/N and 60 lbs. stamped on them. Pricing on these original '64 "AC" units also in the $100 plus range for each.

Although the 1963 through 1966 full-size oil pressure sending units may look identical to other AC units, they are internally different. From an old GM "Electrical" handbook, I found out the following: All 1963 through 1966 "Full Size" sending units had a maximum resistance of 31 ohms at full pressure (80 or 60 pounds - the gauges' dial resistances are different allowing for a 80 lbs gauge in the 1963 pod and a 60 lbs gauge in the 1964 pod and so on). This is different from a 1965 through 1966 "GTO" and 1967 and Up all Pontiac models sending unit as they had a maximum resistance of 93 ohms (All the pontiac catalogs including PY and AMES sell these.) One can not use a current GM replacement or aftermarket 1967 and UP 80 pound unit for the 1963 through 1966 "Full-size" Pontiacs as the oil pressure gauge will peg (based upon the resistance of the gauge) at only 20 or 26 pounds of actual oil pressure.

Now lets talk about wiring.The temperature and oil pressure transducers are shown in the pictures below. The temperature transducer get the green wire wheras the oil transducer gets the blue wire. The faded red wire (pink) is 12 V switched power source.

When installing your sensors, the oil transducer also get a 45 degree brass elbow. Do not use teflon tape on either of the transducers as they were meant to be grounded to get the proper readings.

I have shown the gauge package set as installed in my '63 - 421 Catalina Convertible.

If you need more pictures or help please PM me and I will try and help you.

[MOJO Catalina]

Now that's the kind of info I was looking for.
Actually, my set is from a 1964 and I have made bracket adapters to fit them in my 63 dash (no hacking involved) so I'll need the sensor for a 1964.
If you can part with one, let me know.

The oil gauge wires are a no brainer becuase theres a plastic connector.
But the temp gauge is a different story because there are 2 straight terminals.

Looking at the back of the gauge, which terminal (left or right) does the 12 V power wire hook up to on the temp gauge?

[PITTSBURGH 64]

I used Autometer 2-1/4" mechanical gauges, no sending units. I used there stainless wrapped hose for the oil pressure. There good for a driver but not for a numbers correct resto.

Did anybody note the shifter in Zigs car.

[MOJO Catalina]

Oh yeah, and I'd rather have the 1963 gauges for my car of course. If you'll consider a swap or some other deal, I'd like to trade this set for a set of 63s from you if you'll consider that...

[MOJO Catalina]

Jeff, Those look great. How about a closer shot?

[BigAquaBonney]

Thanks for the comments above. I quickly learned it wasn't as simple just going to a parts store and asking for them.

My research for the sending units for the Rally Gauge package is:

Performance Years carries the oil sending unit, here's a cut and paste from them:

Mike,
You are correct on the senders. The temp sending switch i no longer carry but i do have the oil switch for $39.00, our part # is GME43A.

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts


Yes. The 3 gauge cluster with oil, clock and temp. I just picked it up with a new speedo with the voltage and fuel in the speedo cluster. Those, I think, don't need different senders. If you know differently, your expertise would be helpful. Thank you!

-Mike

As for the Temp Sending unit, I think it is available (cheap) from RockAuto.com:

1964 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE 6.4L 389cid V8 : Cooling System : Coolant Temperature Sender


STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # TS6T {TRU-TECH}
WITH GAUGE $6.04

AIRTEX Part # 1T1062 w/Aux. Gauge Panel $9.51

STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # TS6 {TEMPERATURE SENDING UNITS}
WITH GAUGE $11.80

My cut and pasting may not have been the best, so make sure to see the site. I'm going to try to get the Airtex part. For 10 bucks, it's worth the try. I'll be ordering the Performance Years part as well. If someone has the detailed blow-up schematic for these gauges that would be helpful.

[BigAquaBonney]

That, my friend, is one beautiful car!

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by PITTSBURGH 64

I used Autometer 2-1/4" mechanical gauges, no sending units. I used there stainless wrapped hose for the oil pressure. There good for a driver but not for a numbers correct resto.

Did anybody note the shifter in Zigs car.

jeff,i saw the shifter, is that oem or aftermarket? either way it's pretty cool, and was the first thing i noticed.

mike

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Mike that's the first version of the Hurst Dual Gate. I picked one up a few years ago for a good price, it was like hitting the number because they are rare. Once and awhile a dumb mill hunky like me gets lucky I guess.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

MOJO, here are a few close ups. I was surprised at how nicely they fit in the factory bezel.

[Ziggy]

MOJO catalina....The correct temperature sender for '63 or '64 is PN 1512678. You can see one at ebay listing 230214893787. (It is not me..but, for illustration purposes you can look at this.) However, the "old style" TS-6 is also correct. The current style TS-6 has what appears to be a "nailhead" or button" top. It is a service-replacement unit. The correct top was a screw terminal and you need a nut to secure the wire to it.

With respect to the temperature transducer with the two blade terminal. The 63 or 64 ralley gauges did not use transducers with two or even one blade connectors. The two blade and single blade sensors were for the idiot lights...some had two blades because one lit up the "cold" light, the other lit up the "hot" light. The current TS-6 has what appears to be a "nailhead top" or "button top". They sell connector adapters to adapt this top to a blade connector so you could use one of your existing wires. And, then secure your other lead under some wire wrap and you would be good to go. Year One sells the old blade-style terminal temperature sender wires to the service-replacement "nail" type terminal as PN 9521N for $4.30 (for an illustration you can go to page 78 of their on-line cataloge for gto/lemans at www.yearone.com . You can also get this part from a GM dealer and save some shipping costs too.)

Pittsburg 64....Jeff was relating comments to a dual gate shifter manufactured by Hurst and available only in 1963 and 1964. When are you going to install your shifter????? I want to see some pics JEFF!!!!! I didn't make that extra mount for nothing, did I??

Also BigAquaBonney, I would like to offer some input on your findings from my experience in actually trying the sensors you mention. MY COMMENTS ARE IN **CAPS**..Here goes....

Performance Years carries the oil sending unit, here's a cut and paste from them:

Mike,
You are correct on the senders. The temp sending switch i no longer carry but i do have the oil switch for $39.00, our part # is GME43A. **SORRY MIKE THAT ONE WILL NOT WORK - ALREAY TRIED IT AS WELL AS MANY OTHER SENSORS. THE IMPEDANCE IS NOT CORRECT FOR EITHER THE 63 OR 64 GAUGE SET. ONES FROM NPD, YEARONE, AMES OR SUMMIT WILL NOT WORK EITHER. I ALSO TRIED MANY TRUCK SENSORS AS THEY WERE MARKED 80 LBS. BUT, I GUESS YOU LIVE AND LEARN. YOU CAN TRY THEM IF YOU WANT BUT, MAKE SURE YOU CAN RETURN THEM. LET ME KNOW IF YOU FIND ONE THAT WORKS!**

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Looking for Parts


Yes. The 3 gauge cluster with oil, clock and temp. I just picked it up with a new speedo with the voltage and fuel in the speedo cluster. Those, I think, don't need different senders. If you know differently, your expertise would be helpful. Thank you! **FROM WHAT I RECALL, THE CONNECTORS SHOULD DIRECTLY INTERCHANGE AND WORK WITH YOUR EXISTING FUEL TO GASOLINE AND BATT TO BATTERY METERS. YOU MAY HAVE TO OPEN-UP SOME WIRE WRAP SO THE CONNECTOR LEADS CAN BE RE-ARRANGED AND RELOCATED TO THEIR NEW LOCATION**

-Mike

As for the Temp Sending unit, I think it is available (cheap) from RockAuto.com:

1964 PONTIAC BONNEVILLE 6.4L 389cid V8 : Cooling System : Coolant Temperature Sender

**I BELIEVE ALL THE ONES LISTED BELOW HAVE THE "T"" OR "BUTTON" TOP AND YOU MAY NEED AN ADAPTER. I DID NOT RESEARCH EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY AND CAN NOT VERIFY AND CONFIRM ITS APPLICATION. IN THE PAST, I HAVE ONLY USED THE ORIGINAL PN 1512678 OR THE ORIGINAL TS-6. IF THE ONES LISTED WORK WITH THE GAUGE - GREAT! YOU WOULD JUST NEED TO USE THE TERMINAL ADAPTER MENTIONED ABOVE IF YOU WANT TO USE YOUR EXISTING WIRING.**

STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # TS6T {TRU-TECH}
WITH GAUGE $6.04 .

AIRTEX Part # 1T1062 w/Aux. Gauge Panel $9.51

STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # TS6 {TEMPERATURE SENDING UNITS}
WITH GAUGE $11.80

[MOJO Catalina]

Just refreshing this topic from a couple of years ago. I ended up finding NOS Oil and Temp gauges for my '63 and I sold the '64 gauges to some guy from ebay.

Now I'm at it again, this time with my '63 GP. I found another set of '64 gauges complete with full wiring harness that goes all the way to the sensors (which I don't have yet, of course). I've made a mounting bezel to convert them to fit in my '63 dash and unless you know better you couldn't tell they didn't belong there. I also came up with a couple of tricks on how to use the newer sensor since those pesky #1506251 units are so dang expensive and hard to come by. More on that later. Anybody else have '64 Ralley Gauges in a '63?

[Ziggy]

Mojo- be aware that the scales on the oil pressure gauge are different from the '63 to the '64 models. The '64 is a 60# gauge and the '63 is an 80# gauge.

The wiring harnesses are basically the same from each year and should interchange.

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

Now I'm at it again, this time with my '63 GP. I found another set of '64 gauges complete with full wiring harness that goes all the way to the sensors (which I don't have yet, of course). I've made a mounting bezel to convert them to fit in my '63 dash and unless you know better you couldn't tell they didn't belong there.

Got Pics?

Originally Posted by MOJO Catalina

I also came up with a couple of tricks on how to use the newer sensor since those pesky #1506251 units are so dang expensive and hard to come by. More on that later.

...did later ever get here? I think it'd helpful to lotsa folks around here.

[64catdroptop]

Okay,.. my car is 8,000 miles away so I can't check it out phyiscally, but I think I can help you on two: The blue wire is for your oil sensor, and the green wire is for your temp sensor. The pink doesn't ring a bell. Gray wires are for the dash lights and you'll need to splice into those for lighting for your gauge package.

On cars with the idiot lights, the factory cut the one green wire and just used the other green wire (dark/light green). I wish I was home and could pop the hood on mine to check which - but it pro. doesn't matter as long as there is a signal to the temp gauge.

-r-

[Engine-Ear]

Well, I was just kinda wondering what the temp sending unit resistance (in ohms) was at a specified temp.