[mjc34]

Ok, here goes..

I've just obtained a 69' Bonny/Cat rally instrument cluster, eventually planning to install it when I reach the interior portion of my resto. Much nicer and cleaner than adding some aftermarket underdash gauges imop. It really is a nice cluster and I couldn't resist powering up the lighting, and photographing it.



I have a Canadian Pontiac, with a sbc 350. I'm currently completing the engine phase and would like to button everything up.

What I'm looking for here, is a source for the matching senders for the temp/pressure gauges in this cluster. The oil pressure is 0-80 and the temp is 100-250. I know that really means little, and that the ohms range of each sender is what's important. Even some used senders form that matching car would be ok.

What would help me big time here is,

Part numbers for the gauge senders from a 69' big USA pontiac mpc. (to find out if they cross reference with any other year or model).
The ohms range of each sender if possible. (some aftermarket senders are available in different ranges).
A scan of a dash and underhood wiring schematic from a 69' USA Bonny/Cat.

Not at all too much to ask eh? LOL!

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers, Mark.

[engineer]

sender details \ specs have been discussed here before so do a search. for the diagrams, see the factory service manual, but they will not match up with the sbc engine.

[mjc34]

I've tried searching with many different keywords, and find very little on the subject in this forum.
Another forum perhaps?

[engineer]

try heating and cooling or advanced search for whole site

[Peter Serio]

I would go with brand new senders from www.lectriclimited.com

[mjc34]

Thanks Peter,
Great site!
Perfect. Looks like the one, #06402383



Now, on a small block Chev, the temperature sender is located in the left cylinder head, between #1 and 3 spark plug. A smaller fitting. Where would this larger 1/2 fitting be found on a Pontiac motor?

Now to just find a correct Pressure sender!

Cheers, Mark.

[David Brown]

I made the identical switch, from idiot lights to factory gauges on my 70 Bonneville Convertible. In fact, I used the 69 speedo/gauge cluster. Mine is US, so it has a Pontiac 455, not the Canadian Chevy.

I think as long as you get sending units for your engine, they should be fine. What you will need, is the dash wiring harness for gauges as well as the same for the engine. Unlike the A-body dash harness that can be modified, the dash harness on the B-body is entirely different. The printed circuit is entirely different, and the plug in connector isn't even close. So, hopefully you got the harnesses with the gauges, or plan on spending $400 for the dash and about $150 for the engine harness.

Other that that, it's pretty straightforward. I had my dash on the dinning room table, and as I removed one harness, I installed the other. But I agree, the factory gauges look really great. I sent mine to Instrument Services and had the speedo and all the gauges checked, cleaned and calibrated before I started, and they function perfectly.

Good Luck.

[RAJNWDY]

Your right....gauges are better then Idiot lights and Yes I have a 69 with that exact cluster in it and it looks really impressive when your driving down the freeway with 70# of Oil pressure on the gauge. Anyway I do not have a book on the car but most parts houses still have the proper senders and Chevy or Pontiac, the should be able to fix you up...

[mjc34]

Thanks for the comments guys,

David, you say the rally cluster plug is different from the standard, from what I see with mine, they're at least physically the same, with the rally having one extra contact. And from how it appears, to be a very much different wiring configuration (at least in wire colour). I hope to simply remove the extra contact pin from the plug supplied with the cluster, and re-configure my original plug as required to match the rally cluster. I realize that will take some tracing and figuring, but I hope it won't take too much cutting and resplicing if any.
I'll take a close look between the clusters, trace and see what matches and differs between the two and make a diagram. That should tell me what extra lead in wires will be required and from what and how.

The plugs, original to the left.


The "idiot" cluster


The "Rally" cluster

[David Brown]

I don't know. Maybe it can be done. But look at all the additional circuits and locations on the gauge printed circuit, compared to the idiot light printed circuit. The idiot light circuit just goes to a light. The gauge goes to posts and lights.

I called Ames when I did mine, and they said it would need correct harnesses. I don't think it was because they wanted to sell me parts I didn't need. They were rather matter of fact that I needed correct harnesses.

Look at the difference in the colors of the wires, too. They don't just pick colors at random. Each one is specific to a circuit. That is how they identify a cicuit. Also, there is the other end of the harness that goes into the junction block and to the engine harness. They are different.

[RAJNWDY]

you have the two circuits right there in front of you, just trace them out, (not to be funny or rude) I had a 71 Lemans that I put the rally gauges in and I had to change a couple wires around but that was it.

Identify the circuits that are the same: dash lights, left and right turn, High beam, so that leaves just a few wires. so now trace them out, water has usually 1 wire then to ground, oil usually has 2 wires, gas gauge should be the same, maybe just a differant location, and the charge gauge may have 2 wires because it is a shunt type gauge, (no loads through the gauge) if you need to add a wire you have the connector your removing for extra terminals ect.

looks like fun, good luck

[David Brown]

It may be as simple as that, I'm not an expert. I know A and G body it is as simple as switching two wires. I only know what Ames rep told me when I did mine. He even commented that if it was an A body I was working on, it would be a simple job but not the B body. Let us know how it finally works out.

[mjc34]

Here's a diagram comparing the standard to USA Rally plug.
Then the changes required to convert the standard plug to work in the rally cluster.

The Standard cluster shown is from a Canadian Pontiac. USA may differ.

Ammeter not traced.

Pins can easily be moved around in plug.