[Transamric]

OK, here's the deal. Need you guys opinions on which code Rally's my '71 TA should have.
Background,... bought this car from the second owner in 1984, with about 81K miles. It's a Van Nuys 05A built May 7th. The 4 original road wheels were long gone, but it has its' original Rally & F60 Polyglas in the trunk, never used. 2nd owner said that spare was in the trunk when he bought it about '77. But the near mint Build Sheet, in Box 59 shows wheel code JW. The perfect spare is a KN dated M1 over 0 (zero), and 7-28.
What do I put on the 4 corners? JW's or KN's. Or, like a couple other '71 TA's I've seen, could this car have been built with both JW & KN's?
Last Q. Has anyone been able to determine at what point Pontiac switched from JW's to KN's? And why, when they appear to be identical wheels?

[68bird400HO]

They switched when they ran out of JWs which I would guess was well before May. I have heard of cars with mixes of codes. I really don't think your car would have had JWs. My buddy's January built Norwood 71 TA still had all five of its original KNs, so, Norwood was pretty much there by January. My 71 is a 12C built Van Nuys car. I have some evidence that my car probably still had JWs, however, I am going with a JW/KN mix due to difficulty of finding enough of either. FWIW, the JWs I have are dated 6-25 and off of a 12B built Van Nuys 71.

There was a discussion about that build sheet code in a different thread and I don't think that having that JW code means that you had JW wheels. Being a later car you could go with KNs or KRs and be fine. If I were you I would look for some earlier dated KRs and go with those. Easier to find than KNs or JWs.

[indyta1989]

My 1971 Trans Am was built Feb 24th 1971 at the Van Nuys plant and it has its original JW wheels.

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by indyta1989

My 1971 Trans Am was built Feb 24th 1971 at the Van Nuys plant and it has its original JW wheels.

What are the date codes on your wheels?

[71HO4SPD]

My '71 Norwood Trans Am was built in early March of '71 and has KR's on it.

[RAM AIR 1967]

My 71 TA a Norwood 4th week January KN wheels 7-28-70 I have 2 Sets of 5 with this date

[weranc55]

I have a 71 that was but in Van also in March and has 4 jw's on it dated 7-25

[keith k]

My recollection of this discussion when it's come up in the past (try the search function), was that Norwood "ran out" of JWs and switched well before Van Nuys did. Also that the JW code on the build sheet was more of an indicator of a 15" rally wheel, not necessarily that the wheel on the car HAD to be a JW. The build sheets seemed to keep the JW code for awhile after the actual parts had switched to KN/KR.

[68bird400HO]

Originally Posted by weranc55

I have a 71 that was but in Van also in March and has 4 jw's on it dated 7-25

hmmm... 7-25 JWs? I have 6-25 JWs and have seen 7-15 JWs. Are you 100% sure they are 7-25s. I only ask because it seems odd that they would run a batch of 7-25 JWs and then 2 days later switch to KNs. I suppose anything is possible though.

[roundportponchos]

my 71 TA, is a van nuys car, all orig, from carb(even has the ground tang) to rear... built 12/70, has all 5 orig rims, & spare, all dated 7/28 KN,,, orig sheet shows JW, but that is not correct, atleast for this car.
hopefully some day, it might be put back togther, in a million pieces.... & able to excercise the wheels!!!!!! When/if I it lotto!!!!!!!

[hunkerdown]

I had a 71 400 Formula that had the original spare in the trunk (KS) and the original owner told me that when he went to pick up the car he wanted a full sized spare and he made them give him a rally 2 to match the other ones. maybe that's how yours got there also???

[giles]

Originally Posted by Transamric

OK, here's the deal. Need you guys opinions on which code Rally's my '71 TA should have.....
Has anyone been able to determine at what point Pontiac switched from JW's to KN's? And why, when they appear to be identical wheels?

I found a revision note in the 71 assembly manual dated 11/10/70 where KN supercedes the JW wheel. Without the formal "engineering change" document it would be difficult to know a definite change date, or the reason for the change. The engineering change document probably specified "use up available stock" which would mean that the KNs would come along as JWs were used up, as several above have estimated. This would point to a couple things;

- we should not see any 71s built before mid November with KNs
- the changeover date was probably a month or several months later (seems to fit)
- the changeover would have likely been different between Van Nuys and Norwood depending on how much JW stock each had on hand (also seems to fit)
- It would be possible to see some cars with a mixture during the changeover.

Lastly I see no notes or reference to KRs so I have no idea when they were introduced.

[TA455HO]

What area of the assembly manual did you find that note in? Can you scan the page? I looked through Optional Equipment N and see a note from 11/10/70, but it doesn't mention the wheels by code.

I have an early 1971 (late Aug./Early Sept.) Norwood car that came with a complete set of 7-28-70 KN wheels. I seriously doubt they are not original rims as this car was beat to crap, not restored, but is numbers matching on everything else. For this car to have had the some other codes, like JW, removed at some point wouldn't be hard to fathom. What is hard to fathom is it ending up with a complete set of KNs that have a date code that is so correct. I guess anything is possible.

[2manyT/A'S]

I really think we need to compile some sort of list of ALL available date codes for JW,KR & KN wheels.

This is as good a place as any to START.

Anybody out there care to organize it??

[TA455HO]

I'll gladly compile a list.

Too bad the assembly manual copy I have isn't better quality. Some of the handwritten notes just don't come through well.

I'm learning more each day as I research. For example:

In the assembly manual under Wheels & Tires I.D. Codes it lists

The JW wheel was part number 482000

The KR wheel was part number 485454 - This one is listed as Firebird W/PM7

The KS wheel was part number 485455 - This one is listed as Firebird D/PM7 and although I've never seen one this is likely 14x7 instead of 15x7 (jives with information from http://pontiacserver.com/wheels.html#rally2)

The KN wheel is not listed on this page or on the web site. There are some handwritten notes next to the JW entry, but I cannot read them.

Then in the Optional Equipment N on Page 482785 it has an entry in the notes from 11/10/70 that indicates 485454 was 482000 (KR was JW).

And yet the parts book lists JW and KR as correct for 1970 through 1972. Again, no mention of KN under either of these two part numbers

482000 5.803 F/8 ..................... WHEEL (15 x 7) Rally II 5 1970 1970 5-27

485454 5.803 F/8 WHEEL (15 x 7) (Rally) (stamped JW or KR) 5 1970 1971 5-34
485454 5.803 42 WHEEL (15 x 7) (stamped JW or KR) (Rally) 5 1971 1971 5-34
485454 5.803 All A, F & G WHEEL (15 x 7) (stamped JW or KR) Rally 5 1972 1972 5-34
485454 5.803 All F WHEEL (15 x 7) (stamped KR) Rally II 5 1973 1973 5-34

And, for the KS the parts book also says it is 14x7


485455 5.803 F/8 WHEEL (14 x 7)-- (stamped KS)-- (Rally- space 5 1969 1971 5-33

Date codes I can personally confirm from wheels I currently own or have owned in the past include

JW - 1/26/70, 3/9/70, 4/6/70
KN - 7/27/70, 7/28/70
KR - 12/28/70, 1/4/71

I can provide pictures of all these if desired. Reply to this with pictures of other date codes for validation.

[TA455HO]

After comparing these dates to 1970-1971 calendars all but 7/28/1970 (Tuesday) fell on a Monday.

1/26/70 - Monday
3/9/70 - Monday
4/6/70 - Monday
7/27/70 - Monday
12/28/70 - Monday
1/4/71 - Monday

Quite the coincidence? Maybe not. I know there are other dates out there.

[68bird400HO]

In addition, I have seen the following:

JW 5/25/70, 6/25/70, 7/15/70, I think I have seen a 4/24 JW as well
KR 10/2?/70, 11/10/70, 12/29/70, 2/??/72

[TA455HO]

Thanks 68Bird.

Hey, my first car (1978) was a 1968 Firebird 350 2bbl Powerglide. I used to put in in low until I'd hit about 85 mph and then slam it into Drive and rocket up to about 135 mph. Not bad for a 350 2 bbl, huh? I've got a picture of me standing next to the old bird back in the day. I'll scan it (pre-digital era) and post it here. Eventually had to rebuild the Powerglide, but it took abuse for a good long time both before and after.

[68bird400HO]

Yeah, I love both the first and second gens. Fortunately, I have one of each now.

[1971455HO]

I have a mixed set of KR's. Here's what I think I have, if I understand how to read them. I'm new to this. Please feel free to correct me, I really want to know how to do this.

2 ea. M1 07/21 (July 21st, 1971)

1 ea. M1 12/08 (Dec. 08th, 1971)

1 ea. M0 12/29 (Dec. 29th, 1970)

They are in really good shape. If any of what I have would help to correct your set, maybe we can work something out, trade, etc. I'm willing to do it provided your wheels are as nice as mine. Thing is, my cars build date is 0 9A, so I'm not really sure what date wheels are appropriate for my car. My engine and dated parts on it were made in July to mid August 1970.

Should the wheels be in that same time frame, or earlier, or much earlier? Hoping you guys can share some light on the subject. Thanks Eddie.

Just a thought guys while we're posting up information on these hard to find wheels.

Two more questions. Do all the JW,KN & KR wheels look the same? Same rare small center fabricated for a 15 x 7 rim like the 70 model?