[GTO JOHN]

Looking for input and advise regarding SR blocks and their use.

I'm thinking that in the grand scheme of things you [and any potential buyer] would want the following in order assuming you have a 4-spd 69 Judge....

1. vin matching WS block
2. SR block
3. correct dated and coded WS block
4. any 69 WS block
5. any NOM block

If you guys agree that an SR takes priority over another WS then we get to the date code discussion and my question today.

I have a 9790071 casting SR block with 4 bolt mains. Date code is B209. Is this block too early to use for a 69 Judge resto? or is it actually perfectly dated?

Typically what would you expect to see with an SR replacement? Any factory or dealer workers with knowledge of how the system worked please enlighten us. In addition, anyone else who has thoughts on this subject chime in as well.

John

[71 T/A]

When was your car built?

[GTO JOHN]

I actually have several.

01D
02B
02D

[JLHarper]

John:

I agree on your order of prominence, though this is often debated with conviction.

Some may also argue the SR Cast dates should be "after" the production date of the car.
I do not know how PMD (& dealers) handled this, example: were there any corporate "rules" to follow on what to replace failed block/eng with?

If using the "SR should be after production date of car" logic:

SR BLOCK: B209: FEB 20 69 (third week)

01D: JAN 4th week , Yes
02B: FEB 2nd week , Yes
02D: FEB 4th week , ?

I would argue though:

What if the 02D cars engine failed in JUNE of that year? Suppose a FEB 20 69 cast date block might have still been in inventory?

Jeff

[robz]

Just my rendition on this, but shouldn't the SR block date be stamped on engine somewhere once it was used (for warranty purposes) rendering cast date useless/irrelevant?

[trishieldchief]

Originally Posted by GTO JOHN

Looking for input and advise regarding SR blocks and their use.

I'm thinking that in the grand scheme of things you [and any potential buyer] would want the following in order assuming you have a 4-spd 69 Judge....

1. vin matching WS block
2. SR block
3. correct dated and coded WS block
4. any 69 WS block
5. any NOM block

If you guys agree that an SR takes priority over another WS then we get to the date code discussion and my question today.

I have a 9790071 casting SR block with 4 bolt mains. Date code is B209. Is this block too early to use for a 69 Judge resto? or is it actually perfectly dated?

Typically what would you expect to see with an SR replacement? Any factory or dealer workers with knowledge of how the system worked please enlighten us. In addition, anyone else who has thoughts on this subject chime in as well.

John

John
This should be the order

1.#'s matching WS
2.correct date coded WS
3.any date code WS
4 SR
5 any 400

Reason for my shuffle is, when I am at a show, and see a 69 Judge, the first thing I look at is to see if car has correct block. Even if it is a non matching WS block in car, I walk away assuming it is original engine like everybody else.
When I look in engine bay at a show and see no code, ie SR because it's stamped down low and you can't see it, I walk away thinking wrong motor in car.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by trishieldchief

John
This should be the order

1.#'s matching WS
2.correct date coded WS
3.any date code WS
4 SR
5 any 400

Reason for my shuffle is, when I am at a show, and see a 69 Judge, the first thing I look at is to see if car has correct block. Even if it is a non matching WS block in car, I walk away assuming it is original engine like everybody else.
When I look in engine bay at a show and see no code, ie SR because it's stamped down low and you can't see it, I walk away thinking wrong motor in car.

Agreed.

[JLHarper]

SR is the correct way the factory would have handled a problem engine.

That would be closer to a #s car, as its known in the hobby this is the way it was repaired.

They would not have installed another cars eng. The car would have had two VINs for warranty/service work.

Remember, hes asking whats going to be closest to original after #s?

Not all SR blocks had VINs stamped.....that been beat to death as well.

Someone should do a poll and ask: "what would you buy in order of money spent?

Jeff

[The Boss]

Jeff,

I understand your rationale, and even agree with it from a numbers stand point. But the order I quoted above is the one I personally agree with.

When I pop the hood, I want to see the correct code, and I personally consider the cars with correct/dated blocks to be worth more than an SR even though that's how the dealer/GM would have handled it.

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Jeff,

I understand your rationale, and even agree with it from a numbers stand point. But the order I quoted above is the one I personally agree with.

When I pop the hood, I want to see the correct code, and I personally consider the cars with correct/dated blocks to be worth more than an SR even though that's how the dealer/GM would have handled it.

I agree.

[JLHarper]

I hear your point, however, hes asking form a desireability = value standpoint, not personal preferences.

Stating that a #s car has the highest value, and since everyone agrees on this one (list nu. 1) you are setting the "benchmark" for whats the gold standard for an original car.

Factory #s = highest value. Factory #s = most original.

The way the car would have come from the factory.

The next order (still using the original factory equipment as the standard) would be a logical choice of a SR block.

It would be the second best choice for whats the most factory original.

You can not prove, an SR block was not installed by the dealer, unless you have paperwork.

You can prove another eng/block (with a seperate, second VIN) would never have been installed by the factory/dealer.

I personally wouldnt buy a correct car over a SR block, even VIN un -stamped, but thats my preference.

I do think the SR will bring more money, not much but more on a sale.

How do these get judged at national shows?

Jeff

[Judge273]

Desire and value for me.

1.#'s matching WS
2.correct date coded WS
3.any date code WS
4 SR

I wouldn't put any 400 in a Judge...

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by trishieldchief

John
This should be the order

1.#'s matching WS
2.correct date coded WS
3.any date code WS
4 SR
5 any 400

Reason for my shuffle is, when I am at a show, and see a 69 Judge, the first thing I look at is to see if car has correct block. Even if it is a non matching WS block in car, I walk away assuming it is original engine like everybody else.
When I look in engine bay at a show and see no code, ie SR because it's stamped down low and you can't see it, I walk away thinking wrong motor in car.

I agree, too.

K

[getmygoat]

Someone alluded to possible rules regarding date codes of SR blocks.

Rest assured there were no explicit rules from GM or dealers regarding this - it was all the luck of the draw:

- If the engine had a manufacturing defect - discovered shortly after delivery - the SR date code could be close to the car's build date or even a little after.

- If the owner blew up the engine street racing -let say 6 months after the car was bought, the SR date will be after the car's build date.(maybe)


It basically all depends on the inventory levels of these SR blocks - This is before the days of "just in time" manufacturing, so its possible these would sit around for months before being installed. - This would put "backwards pressure" on the date code.

[gregsgtos2]

i agree with all the others above.i want to see the correct code on the front of the block. as i said before,SR blocks seem to be everywhere.

[GTOnly70]

Originally Posted by trishieldchief

John
This should be the order

1.#'s matching WS
2.correct date coded WS
3.any date code WS
4 SR
5 any 400

Reason for my shuffle is, when I am at a show, and see a 69 Judge, the first thing I look at is to see if car has correct block. Even if it is a non matching WS block in car, I walk away assuming it is original engine like everybody else.
When I look in engine bay at a show and see no code, ie SR because it's stamped down low and you can't see it, I walk away thinking wrong motor in car.

I agree with the order above 100%. To me, SR blocks are largely a joke. They were all installed by the dealer, just like the 68 and 69 GTOs with 428s. Yeah, right.

As for the statement made above that "You can not prove, an SR block was not installed by the dealer, unless you have paperwork." BALONEY. The burden of proof is to provide the evidence that the SR block WAS installed by a dealer.

[Bet Winner]

For GTOAA and POCI points judging, is only the original vin matching block allowed in the stock class? Sorry, I'm not sure.

And what is done about possible fakes if so?

This question is related to the topic somewhat I know.

[JLHarper]

Originally Posted by GTOnly70

I agree with the order above 100%. To me, SR blocks are largely a joke. They were all installed by the dealer, just like the 68 and 69 GTOs with 428s. Yeah, right.

As for the statement made above that "You can not prove, an SR block was not installed by the dealer, unless you have paperwork." BALONEY. The burden of proof is to provide the evidence that the SR block WAS installed by a dealer.

Its easier to prove an SR block would have been installed in a car then it is to prove a coded block with another cars VIN would have been......that would NEVER happen under normal circumstances.

Thats why they made SR blocks (?) Service Replacement, for warranty, service work to replace damaged blocks (?).

Hey...its good ther are buyers for the NOM cars!

Jeff

[The Boss]

With the gears the round port cars came with, I'm amazed any of them have their original motors!

My first new car, had a second motor before 25k miles had passed under the tires! The original heads were gone in 10! It was factory sponsorship!

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by The Boss

With the gears the round port cars came with, I'm amazed any of them have their original motors!

My first new car, had a second motor before 25k miles had passed under the tires! The original heads were gone in 10! It was factory sponsorship!

The previous owner told me he saw you coming and swapped motors the night before you got there .