[theYman]

My neighbor has started working on his 70 TA. It is a white auto a/c car. What can you tell me from this data tag?
Thanks Trent

[johnta1]

1970 TA white exterior, blue vinyl interior, built March 19,1970.
3105 F-body made in Van Nuys so far, probably 8th off that line that day.

[70FormulaRAIII]

Built 3rd week of March. Polar White with standard blue interior trim

[theYman]

You guys rock! Thanks

[thall10]

Hey Trent

Let me know if he needs any help. I've got some pieces and parts left over our build here in Willard. You still got the 69?

[Transamric]

For clarity, if I can further "tweak" the info shared so far............
The BL03105 is the 3,105th 'F' body (firewall back main body) built at the Van Nuys Fisher Body Assembly Plant, & has nothing to do with its' order of final assembly. This number has no correlation to its' model or to any thing at Norwood.
The 190083 or (190080), hard to make out that last character, is a sequential production number that breaks down like this; the first two digits will be the scheduled build date, as someone shared, the 19th of the month. The third digit will always be a zero. The last three digits will be the number where that car fits into a given days production rotation. So this TA was the 83rd (or 80th, whatever that last character is) 'F' body built on March 19th.
Of course, daily production totals varied at VN depending on demand & the time of year. The largest rotation number I've seen is 737 (in June), & have been told that we can assume VN daily maximum was about 750. So this 80-something would have been as early A.M. build.
Also should clarify further,...these Scheduled Build Dates are just that,....scheduled! Not likely any were built before their scheduled build date, but definitely some were "held up" until the following day & possibly the next day. The only way to know for 100% positive which day any car was built, would be to have been to be there & see it happen.

[robz]

Good info TA-Ric...

[johnta1]

Yep, I meant 80th in my reply, typing is not my strong suit.

[Jim Robertson]

Transamric brings up some interesting points

I have a few questions:
When did the "WS4" stamping begin to be included on the Trans am tags?

If the understood production capacity is 750 per day and this body was #3105, is it odd that it was built (used from inventory) in mid March? I ask this because if 750 cars are able to be produced per day then it would only take a little over 4 days of max production to reach #3105. Even if production began around Jan, would Van Nuys not have reached #3105 much sooner in the calendar year? Maybe I missed something...

Were all the characters (numbers and letters) stamped into the tag at the same time? or did the tag remain loose as the body traveled along...possibly receiving different characters along its journey? Obviously the characters would all have to be complete before the tag is riveted on as they are stamped from the back.

Just a few thoughts early in the morning.
Jim

[Transamric]

The WS4 was not used by Van Nuys. Norwood did use the WS4 in '70-73 (& later years).
Production at Van Nuys started 01B, making Ymans TA built in the 8th week of production, which, by simple math should make his Body Number much larger. But simple math doesn't give us an accurate picture, because the initial production ramped up slowly in January & February. Remember I said "maximum production" was about 750 units per day. From my data, it appears obvious that most days production totals were significantly less than that. Also remember, that I said the Fisher Body Number as no almost no correlation to sequential production. A fictitious example would be; BL01234 could have been final assembled say Feb. 20th, while BL01000 could have been built Feb. 21st.
Best thing to remember about production & numbering,.....these cars were not built in any exact numerical sequence by VIN or by Fisher Body Number.
I don't have any documentation on whether Trim Tags characters were stamped in unison, or at different stations, other than the basic tags had the PNT, TRM, BDY, etc., & the Federal required info at the bottom, pre-stamped. And yes, mistakes were made in this stamped info too. They were just done by guys working to make a living, & sometimes they just didn't get it right. Like the Trim Tag from a '71 Esprit that has 22587 for the Model Number, rather than the 22487 it should have had.

[Transamric]

Here's a couple examples from two V.N. Firebirds I've owned, that show the math doesn't always seem to make sense.
0L106374,...05D,...BL06792,...250082.
0L106453,...05D,...BL06869,...250450.
You see the second car was 79 VIN numbers larger, 77 Fisher Body numbers larger, & was scheduled to be built the same day (25th), but the build sequence is 368 cars later.

[Transamric]

And forgot to state the other obvious thing, that 750 number also includes that other little known car built at V.N.,.....Camaro.
The Plants approximate capacity was about 750, not 750 FB's built per day.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Jim Robertson

Were all the characters (numbers and letters) stamped into the tag at the same time? or did the tag remain loose as the body traveled along...possibly receiving different characters along its journey? Obviously the characters would all have to be complete before the tag is riveted on as they are stamped from the back.

Just a few thoughts early in the morning.
Jim

All the option content characters were stamped at once (on a blank with the pre-stamped info already there, as Ric mentioned) and the cowl tag affixed to the body.

The only exception would be on occasion we see what appears to be "hand stamped" figures (stamped from the front) in the corners of the tag. There is not total agreement on what they mean but some think they represent the gating (fixtures) used in the body shop to weld the body together and maybe an indication of the build shift (ie, "15-2").

K

[Jim Robertson]

Yes thanks for the feedback. Great Info.
Jim

[Transamric]

I've seen many of these, what I call secondary stampings, hand stamped as you say, Keith. Mainly on '71-73 tags. All the ones I've seen are in the 60 series,....61, 62, 63, 64 & 66, & obviously each character is stamped individually. I'm totally without a clue as to what these may stand for.

[giles]

Something else to keep in mind regarding production rates is that Norwood made only F-bodies while Van Nuys built F and Chevy A-bodies ( Chevelle, El Camino, Monte Carlo as well as GMC Sprint). The fraction of VN production devoted to Firebird was quite low, maybe 5-10 %, something like 50 cars / day.

[Todd Mullin]

This is why I love this web site, great info. My 71 TA was built 2nd week in Sep, at the Van Nuys plant, any guess on how many 71 TA's would of been built by that date?

[RicksGTO]

Originally Posted by Transamric

I've seen many of these, what I call secondary stampings, hand stamped as you say, Keith. Mainly on '71-73 tags. All the ones I've seen are in the 60 series,....61, 62, 63, 64 & 66, & obviously each character is stamped individually. I'm totally without a clue as to what these may stand for.

last month I came across an article written by John Hinckley. He was a long time GM assembly plant employee that was also involved with the Fisher body plants during his time at the Norwood and Van Nuys plants. I emailed him a pic of a data tag with the hand stamped "65" to ask him what they meant. Here is his reply:

"some body shops in those days stamped the numbers of the side frame gates used to subassemble the body side prior to body framing as an aid to tracking back dimensional variations to the specific gate that was used on that car, as there were multiple sets of side frame gates used"

[Transamric]

Originally Posted by Todd Mullin

This is why I love this web site, great info. My 71 TA was built 2nd week in Sep, at the Van Nuys plant, any guess on how many 71 TA's would of been built by that date?

We can probably do some estimates based simply on percentages. Since production for '71 started late 08B, early 08C at both plants, & because the GM Strike started 9/14/70 (a Monday), & knowing there were 53,149 '71 Firebirds built, 2112 TA's, roughly 2600 FB's were built prior to the strike, 4% of total production were TA's, that would mean about 100 TA's were built before the strikes start.
If anything, this rough estimate may be a bit high, because performance type cars were not produced in as high of volume heading in to the Winter months, as they were heading in to Spring/Summer.

[x-bird2]

Originally Posted by RicksGTO

last month I came across an article written by John Hinckley. He was a long time GM assembly plant employee that was also involved with the Fisher body plants during his time at the Norwood and Van Nuys plants. I emailed him a pic of a data tag with the hand stamped "65" to ask him what they meant. Here is his reply:

"some body shops in those days stamped the numbers of the side frame gates used to subassemble the body side prior to body framing as an aid to tracking back dimensional variations to the specific gate that was used on that car, as there were multiple sets of side frame gates used"

Awesome bit of information.