[Held for Ransom]

With the demise of Pontiac, PHS has raised the price of info to $65.

[GTO JOHN]

Still a bargain at $65. The Chevelle guys wish they had the same info available for their cars. I'm willing to bet some guys would pay upwards of $200 to properly document their 69 Chevelle ss396.

[JLHarper]

Whats Gavin Govier charge now for Mopars?

[dennis kirban]

I agree still a bargain since it documents your car which translates into value when you sell it.

Your rite Chevy-Buick people do not have the same opportunity not sure about Olds. I know Jim tried years ago to try and get others on board with no success.

denniskirban@yahoo.com

[Txbobcat]

You cant get it from anyplace else.

[bigpop]

What ther others above say. It's a bargain ,considering the lose a buyer could suffer
on a bogus car. Larry B.

[Stuart]

My understanding is that they had been receiving some financial support from Pontiac, so when that went away they were forced to raise their fee.

[79TA455]

Is there PHS Documentation on Canadian manufactured cars too?

[The Boss]

It would be a steal at 3 times the price!

[steve v]

Originally Posted by 79TA455

Is there PHS Documentation on Canadian manufactured cars too?

GM of Canada can document our North of the boarder cars.

[J GLASGO]

Anybody ever wonder how many times the same cars papers get pulled? Wonder if they keep records.

[79TA455]

Originally Posted by steve v

GM of Canada can document our North of the boarder cars.

That I was aware of and have done before but always wondered if PHS would have any documentation on them.

[JLHarper]

Originally Posted by J GLASGO

Anybody ever wonder how many times the same cars papers get pulled? Wonder if they keep records.

I was wondering the same.

I bet there are "record cars" maybe from the good ole days around 06 when one came up on ebay.

[MikeNoun]

I don't believe PHS ever had support from Pontiac. Jim Mattison started this whole PHS thing on his own.

As for fees, yes, it's still a bargain at $65 considering you could be making a mistake buying a $30,000 65 GTO and find out later it's a $5,000 Lemans.

The Chevy guys have had rumors flying around for years that there will be a service like PHS for their cars, but so far, nothing yet. I would imagine 50% of the owners of high end Chevelle SS's, Camaros, and Corvettes would be thrilled to have something like PHS, another 25% will soon find out their car isn't what it was supposed to be, and the other 25% are trying to sell their cars before this service becomes available.

Back in the 80's, some shops were cranking out big-block Corvettes the way Lucy and Ethel were trying to keep the chocolate assembly line moving. Shops made Corvettes to the buyers specs, and they stamped whatever numbers you wanted. Now decades later, those cars have aged and appear original, so it's very hard to be sure of what you're buying.

I believe Joel Rosen of Baldwin-Motion fame charges something like $1500 to come bless your car as a "real one", so $65 for actual Pontiac documentation is still a bargain.

[Stuart]

Right from the horse's mouth:

Although Pontiac Division is sadly gone, we at PHS (previously called Pontiac Historic Services) have always been an independent company and will continue to supply information to the Pontiac hobby.

Over the years PHS has strived to supply the most comprehensive information package on Pontiac vintage and collector cars in the industry. Our ability to authenticate Pontiacs has become the envy of most all the other car companies and hobbyist groups.

Additionally, in previous years, Pontiac Division had partially supported our efforts. However, as the decline of the economy affected the financial stability of General Motors and ultimately the demise of Pontiac Division, we no longer have that support. However, we have tried to keep the costs of our information packages as cost effective as possible and have continued to do so for quite some time, even without Pontiac’s help.

As many of you know, effective October 31, 2010, Pontiac Division and its dealer network officially ceased all operations, although most functions had stopped many months earlier. Unfortunately, as our cost of our operation continues to increase, we are forced to implement a price increase effective immediately. The new pricing will be $65.00 for US orders and $75.00 for orders outside the US.

We would like thank you for your continued loyalty to the Pontiac brand and may the “Excitement” of Pontiacs continue on for many years to come!

Jim Mattison
PHS – Automotive Services

[68gtoMN]

Here's my one, and only complaint...

GET CLEAN COPIES of these documents and stop sending the same, old, terrible photocopies along with the packets. It's really not that hard. In fact, I have properly recreated several exact reproductions of these documents for the 1968 model year and these could be produced at fractions of pennies each at a printer.

We used to get a factory photo with the packets also...

[bdk1976]

Would be interested to know how "the cost of the operation continues to increase" since that is the reason given for raising prices. Are rent and power prices really increasing that much in the Detroit area? I can't imagine too many other factors that would affect looking up stuff on microfiche and sending it out to people. It's not like the cost for this service is tightly bound to oil/gas prices or pork belly futures.

I can understand and appreciate "I want to make more $$" or "I got used to high revenue during the 2000's muscle car boom and am raising prices in the downturn to maintain those levels" as reasons, but this one puzzles me a bit.

Don't get me wrong - as far as I'm concerned, he owns the company and doesn't need to make ANY excuses for price increases. But since he feels the need to voluntarily give a generic, semi-dubious reason for the price increase, it kinda rubs me the wrong way.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

Would be interested to know how "the cost of the operation continues to increase" since that is the reason given for raising prices. Are rent and power prices really increasing that much in the Detroit area? I can't imagine too many other factors that would affect looking up stuff on microfiche and sending it out to people. It's not like the cost for this service is tightly bound to oil/gas prices or pork belly futures.

I can understand and appreciate "I want to make more $$" or "I got used to high revenue during the 2000's muscle car boom and am raising prices in the downturn to maintain those levels" as reasons, but this one puzzles me a bit.

Don't get me wrong - as far as I'm concerned, he owns the company and doesn't need to make ANY excuses for price increases. But since he feels the need to voluntarily give a generic, semi-dubious reason for the price increase, it kinda rubs me the wrong way.

Could be health insurance for him/workers, could be many things or it could be that they have seen a drop off in inquiries due to economy??? Whether there are any measurable increases or not is immaterial to me as a client. I agree with you about his offering a "generic" excuse. He would have been better served to say little about the increase other than that it had increased. My information would have read: "Effective XX date, the prices for services have changed to $65/$75" Say nothing about what they had been.

Were this my business, I would have converted this to a database LONG ago. This conversion could have been automated and would allow for them to search the entire database for summary of cars with certain options, etc. It would have opened up an entirely new line of service for specialized, Category inquires (e.g. how many 1970 455 HO RA A/C 4-Spd cars were produced? what was color breakdown?)

I know...It's easy to sit on the sidelines and play quarterback. However, the product provided has not changed, in essence, since the early 1980s. I still receive the same xeroxed forms and packets I received then and their quality has not improved. Only now, we don't get a picture of the car included. Perhaps I'll start my own service to provide some things I think could be done better... Hmmmm

[Old Blue 66]

I guess if I were to order a PHS, it would be to make sure what Im buyig is legit. After that, its all cake. Who cares what it looks like like. If anything, having PHS Im sure has dome something for the value of out Pontiacs.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

Would be interested to know how "the cost of the operation continues to increase" since that is the reason given for raising prices. Are rent and power prices really increasing that much in the Detroit area? I can't imagine too many other factors that would affect looking up stuff on microfiche and sending it out to people. It's not like the cost for this service is tightly bound to oil/gas prices or pork belly futures.

I can understand and appreciate "I want to make more $$" or "I got used to high revenue during the 2000's muscle car boom and am raising prices in the downturn to maintain those levels" as reasons, but this one puzzles me a bit.

Don't get me wrong - as far as I'm concerned, he owns the company and doesn't need to make ANY excuses for price increases. But since he feels the need to voluntarily give a generic, semi-dubious reason for the price increase, it kinda rubs me the wrong way.

I think this is the answer:

Additionally, in previous years, Pontiac Division had partially supported our efforts. However, as the decline of the economy affected the financial stability of General Motors and ultimately the demise of Pontiac Division, we no longer have that support.