[ry57pont]

Crower 60311 vs xe 274 dyno results

I was able to get to the dyno today. Just thought I would post the results. My objective is not to bash the XE, but to give some solid numbers for comparison.

462 out of the box 87cc e-head. Performer RPM holley 830 annular with 850 quickfuel base. 1.65 rockers crower 60311s duration @ .050 i=247 e=252

1st pull with a 1” 4 hole 37 deg.
533.5 ft lbs@ 4300
497hp @ 5500

2nd pull with a 1” cloverleaf open
536.9 ft lbs@ 4400
502.8 hp @ 5500

3rd pull with a quickfuel 1” super sucker
536.2 ft lbs @ 4300
502 hp @ 5400


As compared to my previous dyno pulls with the xe 274h 1.5 rockers duration @ .050 i=230 e=236

1st pull with a 1” 4 hole
554 ft lbs @ 3900
465.5 hp @ 5100

2nd pull with a 1” cloverleaf
548 ft lbs @ 4000
469.5 hp @ 5000

all pulls done on 92octane

In conclusion it looks like I lost some low end torque to the crower solid but gained 30hp and moved the rpm up a little. I guess the timeslip will be the final judge, but I thought you all would find this info useful/interesting.
I did learn that the upper valve cover mounting holes are tapped into the intake runners and should be sealed. Thanks to Ron at R & R performance for pointing that out to me, and thanks to Ed Boserma for lending a hand during the session, and to all the PY board for advise!

FWIW Ryan

PS, please dont let me do any more mods, call my wife if i start talking about needing more HP.

[mchell]

interesting...any idea's on the average hp/tq for both thru the pull range?...gained hp, lost torque......at 3800lbs it should be an interesting comparison at the strip...keep posting!

[68gtoMN]

Post graphs of the best run for each cam, if you have them.

[grandville455]

Well it is 30 hp ... Be interesting to see if hp will prevail at the strip! When u going Ryan?

[mchell]

Originally Posted by ry57pont

Crower 60311 vs xe 274 dyno results

I was able to get to the dyno today. Just thought I would post the results. My objective is not to bash the XE, but to give some solid numbers for comparison.

462 out of the box 87cc e-head. Performer RPM holley 830 annular with 850 quickfuel base. 1.65 rockers crower 60311s duration @ .050 i=247 e=252

1st pull with a 1” 4 hole 37 deg.
533.5 ft lbs@ 4300
497hp @ 5500

2nd pull with a 1” cloverleaf open
536.9 ft lbs@ 4400
502.8 hp @ 5500

3rd pull with a quickfuel 1” super sucker
536.2 ft lbs @ 4300
502 hp @ 5400


As compared to my previous dyno pulls with the xe 274h 1.5 rockers duration @ .050 i=230 e=236

1st pull with a 1” 4 hole
554 ft lbs @ 3900
465.5 hp @ 5100

2nd pull with a 1” cloverleaf
548 ft lbs @ 4000
469.5 hp @ 5000

all pulls done on 92octane

In conclusion it looks like I lost some low end torque to the crower solid but gained 30hp and moved the rpm up a little. I guess the timeslip will be the final judge, but I thought you all would find this info useful/interesting.
I did learn that the upper valve cover mounting holes are tapped into the intake runners and should be sealed. Thanks to Ron at R & R performance for pointing that out to me, and thanks to Ed Boserma for lending a hand during the session, and to all the PY board for advise!

FWIW Ryan

PS, please dont let me do any more mods, call my wife if i start talking about needing more HP.

shoot.....forgot to add... say "hi" to Ed for me...good guy

Mike

[screamingchief]

You could probably find most or all of that "lost" low end torque by advancing the cam a couple of degrees more,loosening up the lash just a bit,or by using a set of 1.5 ratio rockers on there vs. the 1.65's,or some combination of those 3 options.

And it probably wont hurt the HP output all that much either.

It may even help the HP situation too.

And yeah,I agree the average numbers would be interesting to know here as well.

FWIW

Bret P.

[Mikes455Wagon]

Hello can-o-worms....here we go! This shows a good comparison for your combo. I hope that the improved HP really helps out your ETs. This may not totally be an apples to apples comparison. The Crower is a solid cam and is way bigger, which is why I am not totally surprised by these numbers using an E-head. Not defending the XE cam but it appears that it never got a shot with 1.65 rockers. I wouldn't say it would pick up 30 Hp but it might be a difference that is notable. I am with everyone else and wondering what the averages look like.

[screamingchief]

Well,we've been over that in the past here,seeing that "bigger" or "smaller" are entirely relative terms when it comes to cams.

Especially when one is comparing hydraulic and solid cams.

Many (most) folks tend to somewhat under-estimate the "size" of a solid cam that it takes to "compare" to a given hydraulic cam.

I've said it more than once,and I'll say it again,this #60311 solid cam is pretty much the smallest solid cam "equivalent" of the RAIV style hydraulic cams (or as close as one is likely gonna find in a "shelf/catalog" solid grind),and the numbers Ryan's build has gotten tend to prove that POV to be fairly accurate.

The XE274 hydraulic cam is clearly the "smaller" cam when compared to it's RAIV style hydraulic cam brethren.

So it's only natural that the "smaller" XE274 cam would make more torque than a cam like either the RAIV hydraulic or this #60311 solid cam makes.

Heck even the RAIV hydraulic cam would almost certainly make a bit more "low end" torque in a build like this compared to the #60311 solid cam.

That's because hydraulic cams often end up making just a bit more torque than a similar solid cam will,that's not really anything new or surprising.

The apparent loss of "low end" torque is not @ all surprising here,like I said there are a few ways to address that deal if the on-track results suggest that is indeed needed.

And the converter and gearing choices play into that deal as well.

That's why folks dont race dyno's.

I also personally think this combo would've done a little better on the dyno with a down leg style 850 holley carb myself,but that's JMO/preference really.

Would've also be real interesting to see how a build like this did with a couple other intakes too (TII et-al),but I understand that it can be kinda hard for the average fella to do that sorta thing,as time is $$$ when an engine is on the dyno.

Would really help some to see the BSFC numbers for this also.

I dunno,I think things will work out just fine for Ryan's deal,sometimes more torque just makes the car somewhat harder to hook off the line,so softening that low end "hit" is'nt always gonna be a bad thing.

FWIW



Bret P.

[ry57pont]

here is a chart comparing the 2 cams. the red trace is the XE black the Crower. - RB

[ry57pont]

item snap7 is the crower. item snap8 is the XE

[grandville455]

From the looks of the chart You will need to launch higher to get into the power quicker, as the 274 was making more power and torque down low but then the solid took over, it might end up being a trade off? Maybe not run any faster e.t? But A little more mph? U treed me Ryan! Looking at something else u were lean with the solid! damn near 14! Loosing alot of power there too. There is more power to be had! Where are u jetted? What timing?

[Cliff R]

I was able to get to the dyno today. Just thought I would post the results. My objective is not to bash the XE, but to give some solid numbers for comparison.

462 out of the box 87cc e-head. Performer RPM holley 830 annular with 850 quickfuel base. 1.65 rockers crower 60311s duration @ .050 i=247 e=252"

Several years ago we built and tested a 455 with unported 87cc Edelbrock heads. It made 505hp and 551tq on the dyno.

The engine was installed in a 3900lb street driven car, with 3.90 gears and Continental 10" converter.

Driven to the track it ran 11.50's at 118mph on it's first outing......Cliff

[ry57pont]

i guess thats the only benifit of the clutch. Darby im geting sick of this snow.

[ry57pont]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I was able to get to the dyno today. Just thought I would post the results. My objective is not to bash the XE, but to give some solid numbers for comparison.

462 out of the box 87cc e-head. Performer RPM holley 830 annular with 850 quickfuel base. 1.65 rockers crower 60311s duration @ .050 i=247 e=252"

Several years ago we built and tested a 455 with unported 87cc Edelbrock heads. It made 505hp and 551tq on the dyno.

The engine was installed in a 3900lb street driven car, with 3.90 gears and Continental 10" converter.

Driven to the track it ran 11.50's at 118mph on it's first outing......Cliff

i would be a happy man if i could get 11.50 i Promise i will leave it alone if i do

[Cliff R]

PS: the cam used for our test engine was the Crower 60919, 304/314 seat to seat, 231/240 @ .050", on a 113LSA......basically a near copy of the Pontiac 041 grind.....Cliff

[mchell]

looking at the line chart the solid really comes on hard at 4200+ rpm....and pulls hard to 5500+......that cam is obviously taking advantage of the head flow....should run good in your 4 geared car..

[Chris Petersen]

Originally Posted by ry57pont

i guess thats the only benifit of the clutch. Darby im geting sick of this snow.

Yeah, im sick of snow too, more slush/snow today/tonight

Where is R and R, is that in Blaine off 109th?

[Steve C.]

Years ago Lee Atkinson changed from a Ultradyne 231/239 at .050"/ 108 LSA hyd flat tappet cam to a Ultradyne solid flat tappet cam with 247/247 at .050"/ 108 LSA and he picked up about 2-tenths and 4 mph ( best of 11.27 at 199.61 mph, I think ).

I know its not apples-to-apples but note the amount of increase in inatke duration. It was a street car and he commented his driveability not not suffer with the change.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Years ago Lee Atkinson changed from a Ultradyne 231/239 at .050"/ 108 LSA hyd flat tappet cam to a Ultradyne solid flat tappet cam with 247/247 at .050"/ 108 LSA and he picked up about 2-tenths and 4 mph ( best of 11.27 at 199.61 mph, I think ).

I know its not apples-to-apples but note the amount of increase in inatke duration. It was a street car and he commented his driveability not not suffer with the change.

Either a rocket kicked in or fat fingered that one...

[ry57pont]

Originally Posted by Chris Petersen

Yeah, im sick of snow too, more slush/snow today/tonight

Where is R and R, is that in Blaine off 109th?

its kind of behind NAPA in spring lake park