[GTOs-n-Vettes]

May sound like a silly question, but... What trunk lid type(s) would be correct for an early Judge built 4th week of Jan ’69 (01D) at the Fremont, CA plant?

I have three trunk lids here and have noticed that there are three different inner layer configurations as seen in the attached pics. Did the factory have to drill/cut the spoiler holes in the inner bracing for any of the early cars. This question has come up because the lid in the first pic is extremely straight and rust free while the other two are junk.

One more question… Did all ’69 GTOs/Judges come with the stainless trim at the bottom edge of the trunk lid? I ask because the fastening tabs on the trim would have to be bent/flattened to be flush with the inner structure of the lid in the first pic while it fits perfectly on the lids in the other two pics.

Any words of wisdom out there would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Rob

[GTOs-n-Vettes]

For clarification, have attached some annotated pics.

[steve v]

It's hard to tell from the angle of the picture but make sure the blue deck lid isn't a '68 part. The lower center part is wider on the '68 lid. They look similar until you put the turn signal bezels back on.....learned that lesson in '76 & still remember it well! LOL!

All '69 GTO & Judges had the stainless steel trim on the deck lid edge & 1/4 panels.

How's the project going?

[Bet Winner]

Mine has the steps in it--1C car.

I agree that the trunk lid chrome should be there.

I have an extra nut on each wing stud in addition to the factory nut/washer. I used to go faster 34 years ago and wondered about that..............

[comanchefirebird]

My 69 Judge is also a 01D Fremont built car. I am 100% certain that it is the original deck lid for the car as it was original paint when I purchased it. It is the type 3 from your pictures.

[GTO JOHN]

One of my 69 Judges is an 01D Baltimore car and it also has the type 3 lid. All the decklids were changed to type 3 once the Judge was introduced. All standard GTO and Lemans and Tempest would have received the type 3 lids on cars built after Jan 15 '69.

Could you see any shettmetal date codes on the type 1 and 2 lids? That would be interesting to know.

[redgto366]

Originally Posted by steve v

It's hard to tell from the angle of the picture but make sure the blue deck lid isn't a '68 part. The lower center part is wider on the '68 lid. They look similar until you put the turn signal bezels back on.....learned that lesson in '76 & still remember it well! LOL!

All '69 GTO & Judges had the stainless steel trim on the deck lid edge & 1/4 panels.

How's the project going?

Not true... later 69 GTO's did not have the trunk or quarter panel trim.

[GTOs-n-Vettes]

Thanks for the responses up to this point guys!

Steve V, I have to admit that I learned the difference between the 68 & 69 trunk lids back in the early 80's "the hard way" as you did. This one is definitely a '69. The project has been slow, but is picking up steam and hope to head to the body shop soon.

Bet Winner, Camanchefirebird and GTO John, y'all have given the answer that I figured would be the case.

GTO John, I've noticed numbers stamped in sheetmetal parts before, but didn't realize they were date codes. I hope to be back at my buddy's shop this weekend to work on my car. I'll check the stamps in the lids and let you know what I find out.

RedGTO366's comments about the later '69s not having the trim is interesting. I was kind of thinking it might be the other way around as the #1 lid doesn't appear to have any holes in the underside for trim to fasten to, and the trim that fits the #2 and 3 lids doesn't push up flush to the underside structure of the #1 lid. The trim tabs stick up which bothers me. I'll try to post a pic this weekend to show y'all what I'm talking about. The reputable vendor that I bought the lid from advised that it had been stripped and the thin layer of gray primer and blue paint was just put on to preserve it. As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any holes welded up or any modifications done. I may have to do a little sanding this weekend to see if anything is hiding, but I don't think there is.

Thanks again!
Rob

[north]

Here is my experience-knowledge of 69 trunk lids

1...sometime around new years 69 there was a change to the trunklid for the judge (your photo #3) that involved the 4 holes into the bracing. (I have a last week December Baltimore convertible without the Judge holes. But my early Feb Fremont car (not a Judge) has the later trunklid)

2...sometime late in production GTO's (except it seems in Fremont) had the five piece trunk quarter trim dropped. (not to be confused with

3...I've also noticed that there seems to be two different trunklid details on the inner lip, there are two different versions of the center trim piece due to this, the center tab to receive the screw is located differently). I haven't studied it enough to see if it is also a late early thing or just different suppliers.

4...They seem to have been custom engineered by the factory to rust instantly!

[GOAT WHORE]

Later 69's did not have lower quarter moldings, padded A pillers or GTO badge on the dash but they could have 5 piece trim on deck lid and quarters.

[north]

My Fremont built July 69 car has the lower trim on the quarters, the trunk trim and since it's a vert it still had the padded A pillars. it does have the later parking brake pad (no bright trim and marked park).

I think the lower quarter trim was never discontinued on Convertibles, perhaps to avoid an extra part number in the parts system (cars with the trim had a different part number due to the holes to receive the moldings)

[2manyponchos]

Originally Posted by north

My Fremont built July 69 car has the lower trim on the quarters, the trunk trim and since it's a vert it still had the padded A pillars. it does have the later parking brake pad (no bright trim and marked park).

I think the lower quarter trim was never discontinued on Convertibles, perhaps to avoid an extra part number in the parts system (cars with the trim had a different part number due to the holes to receive the moldings)

I am of the same opinion regarding Converts having the 1/4 trim. I know of more than one June/July car that had it.

The story I have heard is that the 1/4 trim was deleted from hardtops late in the year when they retooled the hardtop 1/4s (never put the holes in the new tool). I have never heard about the vert 1/4s being retooled thus always having the holes for the lower stainless. That seems to line up with cars I have researched.

Back to topic...

[redgto366]

My 3C Baltimore built Ram Air convt. came without the following. 1. Dash emblem 2. trunk trim 3. quarter panel trim 4. Park brake trim. I think alot of it has to do with plants using up there remaining inventory. Also wasnt there a CT RA3 4:33 convt just found that was also delete these items? I believe that car was also a Baltimore car.

[1969 Ram Air]

Originally Posted by 2manyponchos

I am of the same opinion regarding Converts having the 1/4 trim. I know of more than one June/July car that had it.

The story I have heard is that the 1/4 trim was deleted from hardtops late in the year when they retooled the hardtop 1/4s (never put the holes in the new tool). I have never heard about the vert 1/4s being retooled thus always having the holes for the lower stainless. That seems to line up with cars I have researched.

Back to topic...

This is an interesting theory. My '69 convertible was built within two weeks of my '69 hardtop (both were built at the Baltimore plant) and the convertible has 1/4 trim and the hardtop does not. I always wondered why the cars were built differently.

[thepontiacman]

My 01D built 69 GTO conv.(baltimore) has the 3rd type trunk lid with the holes in the inner structure for the spoiler holes.

[GTOs-n-Vettes]

North,
I hooked up with my local parts vendor this weekend and saw the two different version of center trim described in your comment #3. Nothing further on whether it's due to the timing or place of manufacture.

GTO John,
In response to your question about date codes... The only stamps I could find were on the center braces. Trunk lid #1 is stamped "A37". Trunk lid #2 is stamped "A4023327". There was a partial character stamped before the "A" and looks like another A. Pics of both stamps attached. I have no idea what these numbers mean. Any insight?

Thanks for the additional responses guys!

[RUFFJUDGE]

My second week of July, Pontiac built 69 Judge has the decklid/quarter trim. No lower quarter trim. (hardtop), and pillars are not padded.
My decklid was the typical rusted hulk, but found a nice one on a Tempest that looks just like #3. Must have just got lucky, I did not realize there were three different styles. I had to drill the holes for the stainless trim and outer sheet metal for spoiler and GTO emblem, but the inner brace spoiler holes and the flats for the trim mounting and gto emblem were already there.

Dennis...

[north]

A37 probably means A body two door hardtop

A4023327 probably refers to the Tempest (33) 2 door post (27). Typically GM would refer to a body panel by the numerically lowest model to use it. The 40 could be the week of manufacture, or the stamping press number or the plant or vendor code, who knows, the Quarters have similar codes in the rain gutters.

If you think of it in 69 there were the following applications for that trunk lid

Tempest (33) and Custom S (35) had Pontiac letter set in center of the lip and no trim and no model emblem

LeMans (37) had the Pontiac Letters also but also had the trim and the two holes for model emblem

GTO (42) had the two same holes on the right as the LeMans for the model emblem and the bright trim but not the Pontiac letters.

As for the Judge I would be curious if the four holes for the wing were prepunched or drilled on a factory installed lid? I don't have a Judge so has anyone looked carefully to see if they were indeed punched or drilled?

[Bet Winner]

Originally Posted by north

As for the Judge I would be curious if the four holes for the wing were prepunched or drilled on a factory installed lid?

I believe the holes are perfectly round and were punched if I remember correctly. It has been a long time since my wing was off. I believe that others have said that this is one way to tell an original Judge lid from one that is not.

I assume that the repo wings are plastic and perfectly slick/smooth. The origials are "matte" fiberglass, and you might see a wave here or there.

I can take my wing off sometime and take pictures of the holes in the trunk lid if it would really help someone.

[cv340]

Originally Posted by GTO JOHN

One of my 69 Judges is an 01D Baltimore car and it also has the type 3 lid. All the decklids were changed to type 3 once the Judge was introduced. All standard GTO and Lemans and Tempest would have received the type 3 lids on cars built after Jan 15 '69.

Could you see any shettmetal date codes on the type 1 and 2 lids? That would be interesting to know.

Hey John, I was wondering we were recently talking about a judge of mine. I’m getting some more information from the historical guys here in Canada as to which dealership it was delivered too. this was a 01B 69 judge I’m sure you remember the discussion. I was wondering somebody looked at it and says it should have the trunk stainless trim. I saw on this post that the 15th might’ve been the cut across. is there any way to tell as mine was made before the 15th? Thank you Collin.