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#1
04-25-2012, 07:34 PM
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Quick 1969 Judge question
When they were introduced, was Carousel Red the only color and then others were introduced? Or was that an Old Wive's Tale and all colors were available but dealers were encouraged to order Carousel Red? Thanks!
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#2
04-25-2012, 08:35 PM
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First 2000 were CR only.
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Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
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#3
04-26-2012, 09:50 AM
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I find it hard to acquire new knowledge as I get older and these discussions never brand themselves into my memory. Sometimes I'm wondering if the prevailing wisdom - like the first 2000 cars - was just old knowledge and not new, as there are many old stories that have been put to rest.
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#4
04-26-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
A similar strategy was employed with the introduction of the '63 Grand Prix (only in Nocturne Blue), the thinking being that it made it look like there were more of the cars on the road than was actually the case. Sidebar: Diego - sending you a PM on a different topic. K
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
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#5
04-26-2012, 10:34 AM
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Need to see some early examples of non CR Judges come forth with invoices and build date to see...Pattern Judges have been discussed as all CR's.
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Mike/Illinois |
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#6
04-26-2012, 10:38 AM
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I believe that there was a Pontiac memo after the Judge was released (in Feb 69?)saying that the Judge could now be ordered in other colors.
The first ones were definitely CR. I am not sure where the number 2,000 originated, but that is always the number.
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My Wife: "I thought I married a sophisticated business man, but what I actually got was a redneck fisherman with muscle cars." Some people know all of their rights, but none of their obligations. |
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#7
04-26-2012, 10:42 AM
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Some good reading here....http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...rn+built+judge
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Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
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#8
04-26-2012, 01:19 PM
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Post #19 from Boss's linked thread is what I believe. I'm guessing the Pontiac execs weren't sure about the demand for the Judge, so they decided to build 2,000 and see how they fared. Since there weren't dealer orders initially, the came up with the two different patterns. Once some reached dealerships and hit the streets, there was a demand for more color choices. Remember, not everyone back then would be excited about an "orange" car. Who knows if 2,000 pattern Judges were actually built, or if that is just the initial number Pontiac was committed to building?
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#9
04-26-2012, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
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My Wife: "I thought I married a sophisticated business man, but what I actually got was a redneck fisherman with muscle cars." Some people know all of their rights, but none of their obligations. |
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#10
04-27-2012, 12:48 PM
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I just up my Judge PHS's (about 200) and the first non-CR car was invoiced March 10th built in Arlington. It was Matador red.
By April the majority of Judges are not CR.
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My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (base OHC, 350, 400HO & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA ht’s) 1969 Custom S 2dr ht 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 ht & Judge ht) 1969 Cat (3 Cvt’s & 2dr ht) 1969 Ventura wagon 2 seat 1969 Exec 4dr post 1969 Bonnie Cvt & 2 wagons 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix 2 SJ’s 1969 2+2 2dr ht (Canadian) |
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#11
04-27-2012, 01:10 PM
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Really? CR was not in the majority by April? Interesting (scratching chin)…..
What are the top colors so far besides CR? I suspect Liberty Blue and Midnight Green are at the top. |
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#12
04-27-2012, 01:34 PM
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about 60% of all my Judge PHS's are CR but after March the percentage keeps dropping, in the last two production months CR is in the 25-35% range.
The most popular non-CR colors are: 1...Liberty Blue 2...Palladium, Verdoro, Matador 3...Starlight Black 4...Warwick blue 5...Cameo White & Limelight Green At the other end I have only two Windward blue (extra cost color), one Mayfair Maize and no Burgundy, Champagne and Goldenrod
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My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (base OHC, 350, 400HO & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA ht’s) 1969 Custom S 2dr ht 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 ht & Judge ht) 1969 Cat (3 Cvt’s & 2dr ht) 1969 Ventura wagon 2 seat 1969 Exec 4dr post 1969 Bonnie Cvt & 2 wagons 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix 2 SJ’s 1969 2+2 2dr ht (Canadian) |
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#13
04-27-2012, 01:41 PM
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On a related note about 10% of these Judges have a Cordova top, about 3% of CR cars had the top but 20% of non-CR Judges did.
Also all the CR Cordova tops were black
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My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (base OHC, 350, 400HO & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA ht’s) 1969 Custom S 2dr ht 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 ht & Judge ht) 1969 Cat (3 Cvt’s & 2dr ht) 1969 Ventura wagon 2 seat 1969 Exec 4dr post 1969 Bonnie Cvt & 2 wagons 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix 2 SJ’s 1969 2+2 2dr ht (Canadian) |
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#14
04-27-2012, 01:43 PM
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By comparison non-Judge GTO's had a take rate of 49% on the Cordova top.
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My Break Away Squad 1969 Fbird (base OHC, 350, 400HO & Sprint Cvt’s - 400HO & TA ht’s) 1969 Custom S 2dr ht 1969 LeMans (2dr & 4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 LeMans Safari wagon 1969 GTO (2 Cvt, 2 ht & Judge ht) 1969 Cat (3 Cvt’s & 2dr ht) 1969 Ventura wagon 2 seat 1969 Exec 4dr post 1969 Bonnie Cvt & 2 wagons 1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr ht & Cvt) 1969 Grand Prix 2 SJ’s 1969 2+2 2dr ht (Canadian) |
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#15
04-27-2012, 01:57 PM
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FWIW: Mine has a invoice date of 3/12/69 and is LB RA IV. Tag show built on 03A. Thought to be first Non CR Judge with a IV made....
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Mike/Illinois |
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#16
04-27-2012, 02:19 PM
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Some where I have read the GM Letter/Memo about the first Judges; wish I had kept a copy.
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#17
04-27-2012, 02:53 PM
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I've seen two CR cars with a white top. One was at the Saratoga Springs GTOAA show.
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#18
04-27-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Keep posting more data like this Thanks Rich
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Rich Johns Owner/Operator of Pure Stock Auto Restorations Inc. www.purestockauto.com 1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV M21 4 speed 3:90 1970 GTO Judge Ram Air III M21 4 speed 3:90 Oshawa Built 1970 GSX Stage 1 M21 4 Speed 3.64 # 67 of 678 Original Paint 1970 GSX Stage 1 Auto 3.64 # 603 of 678 12.44@109.73 mph 2011 Buick GS Nats Pure Stock, 12.71@110.64 mph PSMCDR 2011 1970 GS Stage 1 Convertible Auto 3:64 12.71@109.15 mph PSMCDR 2009 1970 GS 455 M21 4 Speed 3.42 1987 GN Astro Roof |
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#19
04-27-2012, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Some guys they just give up living And start dying little by little, piece by piece, Some guys come home from work and wash up, And go racin' in the street. Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978 |
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#20
04-27-2012, 07:10 PM
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My 69 gold RA III 4 speed judge was shipped 4/17/69.Shipped to Salem Pontiac in NC.Tom
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