[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Sometimes things can get complicated.
See if you notice the discrepency on this #'s matching / VIN matching engine.

Really Really nice Restored Pepper Green/Sandalwood Ram3 4spd 3.90
On eBay for 70 or 80k
Only see 1 or 2 mistakes that hurt the car a bit.

[A Schab]

The eun on the block is not the same as on the GM documents.Do you know for sure that it's the original WS motor and not one from another car? I know of a T/A that came from this dealer that was a restamp but sold to the new owner as the original motor.I'm not saying that the dealer had anything to do with the restamp because he is just a broker that has to trust the guy that he got the car from.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Correct A Schab
the EUN "should" have been restamped to match the document.
Its about 30,000 units off. oops

The spacing between W and S is rather large.
And the S looks suspect too.
ima guess it was originally a WT with a close date proximity

The VIN is definitely restamped
crooked/misaligned
and wrong font - too large

And i'm not declaring or aware of who how or when these mistakes were made.
Just pointing them out. fwiw

I've never been to this shop, nor know any of the guys.
But they move a lot of NICE Pontiacs from what i have seen in past on eBay.
And have claimed to be affluent in Pontiac knowledge in past ads.

thinking they might need a new guru.

[A Schab]

I don't think that the gang holder can fit that close to the timing cover.

[judgeman6970]

another question I have on this car, were "rallye wheels w/trim rings" optional on a Judge??

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Trim rings were an option on a 70 Judge.
Whoever repo'd the window sticker missed them, and the 3.90 gear option

I've never seen the XX on an Oshawa trim tag.
Not that i have seen more than a dozen anyway.
Anyone know what that might stand for ?

[Ram4king]

XX usually means special order so maybe it has something to do with the rear axle...JMO

[johnta1]

Would the tranny be on the cowl tag?
(M21)

The tranny wasn't installed until after the body left Fisher?
Now they may have used a code for the tunnel cut out for the shifter, but the body plant wouldn't know/care what actual tranny went into it?

Same with the axle?
Wasn't it installed on the frame and not with the body at Fisher?

[Wakepowell]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Trim rings were an option on a 70 Judge.
Whoever repo'd the window sticker missed them, and the 3.90 gear option

I've never seen the XX on an Oshawa trim tag.
Not that i have seen more than a dozen anyway.
Anyone know what that might stand for ?

I do not think that is an Oshawa Trim Tag. The ones I've seen and own are stamped "Made in Canada" in large letters across the top of the trim tag.

[Evil Stu]

Originally Posted by Wakepowell

I do not think that is an Oshawa Trim Tag. The ones I've seen and own are stamped "Made in Canada" in large letters across the top of the trim tag.

He's right. That doesn't look like any Oshawa tag I've seen.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

All those codes on those lines are for body punch / holes / additions to body shell from firewall back. {*possibly entire body front to rear*}
But they play double duty for us, today.

M21 (M20-M13) covered the tunnel cut-out for a manual shifter
(and tells us it was either 3.90 or 4.33 gear)

M40 would just get a hole for a shift cable.
I guess that hole would later get plugged if it were a column shift non-console.

D55 for console would get mounting bracket welded.

D80 got spoiler mounting holes in decklid.

We tried to nail WT1 in another thread before - but never really proved anything.
You could think it covered the RamAir cable hole in firewall.
BUT then what about Ram3 GTO's - they don't have a code on their tag that relates to RamAir.
We secured Ram3 Oshawa examples.

Best guesses were it possibly related to front spoiler mounting provision.
That wouldn't be hull related - but maybe those codes are not necessarily limited to just the hull. Maybe any body punch or provision is covered.
We don't know 100%

Still super super cool to see WT1 on the Judge tags regardless.

XX is either an error - or something we have not discovered yet on any other example.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The tag on the eBay car is genuine Oshawa.
Most of my examples are on crashed boxes - but i have a few on this box too.
Will post them in a moment.

Seems i remember the ones with CANADA on them are the early versions.

[Evil Stu]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

The tag on the eBay car is genuine Oshawa.
Most of my examples are on crashed boxes - but i have a few on this box too.
Will post them in a moment.

Seems i remember the ones with CANADA on them are the early versions.

BVZ,

I didn't know that. The one I posted is early 08B, the green Judge is late 6B.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

#1 is an Oshawa 70 GTO Ram3 Automatic

#2 Oshawa 70 GTO Ram3 4spd M20

#3 Oshawa 70 GTO Base 4spd M20 (Wakes Car)

#4 Oshawa 70 Judge Auto OrbitO

#5 Oshawa 70 Judge 4spd M20 OrbitO


I have more , and a couple/few are M21 cars.
Cant access them now.

Just wondering if any of our Canadian Folk have ran across XX before.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

There is still 1 more error with the stamped VIN on that block.
You'd just about have to have a genuine block from Canada to know the detail.
Or be a sharp study on PY for a long time.


Lets see who gets it right.

[marxjunk]

plant designator?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The "1" after the 0 is the correct Plant identifier for Oshawa.
1 other thing is wrong, by my data anyway.
Probably need a well versed Canadian member, or a #'s Oshawa car owner to catch it.



Found another Oshawa tag on this box.

70 Judge Ram3 M21 3.90

['ol Pinion head]

I for one would like to see George Z. start getting the options text correct on GM of Canada docs. The list of options always reads like a guy from the Chebbie world typed them up. The disc brake option is a good example, it should not be spelled out multiple different ways, the only way factory discs could come on a '69-71 Pontiac A-body is with a Delco Morraine power booster...NO manual disc on Pontiac A-bodys those 3 years. just type out the correct option: ie, PWR BRK-DISC is how it is typed on most docs.

Would also submit, (every time I've read one) the doc on a Camadian documented Judge, he notes N98 as "ralley" II wheels with trim rings. Since Judges came w "dechromed" rally II wheels, trim rings would have had to have been ordered separately & it would be noted at additional cost on the invoice, otherwise the car was like the other 99% of Judges "dechromed". Know I have ran across the trim ring option on the invoice of a '70 TransAm before, the trim ring option was cheap, but very rarely ordered.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by A Schab

I don't think that the gang holder can fit that close to the timing cover.

Forgot to say
I totally agree
with how close the first digit is to the timing cover.


This gang stamp fixture was acquired from an Oshawa plant worker.
not my tool btw

[1beautifuldaughter]

So, thats the tool that was used for stamping blocks ? very interesting, what did someone just whack it with a hammer ?