[north]

I thought it would be neat to compare actual car weights any of us have from a truck scale or the like. Especially since the weights from GM and various books were obviously not reliable due to typos and/or methodology (using weight of 6cyl lemans versus GTO 400 etc). I'll try to list options that materially would effect weight and mods (headers, mags, etc) if any that would also affect weight

I have three cars weighed (all were weighed without occupants and weight corrected to half a tank of gas (I weighed them with full tank and deducted weight of 10 gallons).

69 GTO convertible... 3,960lbs (RAIII, 4spd, PS, PDB, AC, stereo radio, 8track, P antenna, console, PW, P seat, P locks, reclining seat, hideaways, front and rear shoulder belts, RII, factory floor mats)

69 GTO Hardtop... 3,895lbs (Identical options to above GTO convertible except no power locks, rear shoulder belts or reclining seat)

69 LeMans convertible... 3,940lbs (3502bbl, T400, factory duals, PS, PDB, AC,AMFM, 8 track, P antenna, bench seat, PW, P seat, P locks, factory floor mats, wire wheel covers)

Interesting how they are all so similar, also looks like the 50 lb weigh difference between the hardtop and convertible reported by the factory is accurate

also interesting that the LeMans is so close to the GTO, I guess the extra weight of the T400 offsets the extra weight of the 400, RA and endura nose. For what its worth Ive had both endura noses and 69 chrome noses in my hands and there is no real weight difference (when you compare the chrome nose with all its re-enforcements)

[The Boss]

Are those with you in or out of the car?

My 71 GT-37 was 3840 with me in it (205 lbs) on the scale at Maple Grove last June.

455HO/T400/12 bolt, PS, PDB, radio, bench seat, Rally II's.

[north]

they are without me in the car but with 75 pounds of fuel

it shows you how much AC and all the power accessories add.

If you take the GTOAA guide book a 69 cvt weighs 3,722, add PS, PDB, AC, M20, you are at 3,867. From there I can easily see 100 lbs extra for all the extras like stereo, 8 track, power accessories, additional fuel etc

your car sounds light compared to the GTOAA guide; 3,637 plus HO, PS, PDB, radio equals 3,863 without you in the car.

One thing I've always wondered about was how much heavier a 70 was compared to a 69 with similar equipment. The door beams, floor braces and sway bars must have made a decent increase

[Keith Seymore]

A few random thoughts:

a) Good thread - we need to do this for '64/'65's too

b) I don't know that the GM weights are "unreliable" as much as the constraints are not widely understood. Off the top of my head I know the mass guys track:

Dry weight
Curb Weight
Base Curb Weight
EPA Curb Weight
Lightly laden weight
Shipping weight
Title weight
GVW (gross vehicle weight)

Each has it's own definition consisting of combinations of passenger loading, fuel load, luggage, etc based on the specific topic at hand. I never can remember the correct value and always have to go back to the "experts" to get the appropriate value for the application I am reporting in product literature, regulations and the like.

c) I do think, as you have found, the "delta" values are pretty accurate (ie, plus xx for A/C, plus xx for power steering, etc).

d) I don't know how accurate truck scales are in this case, since they must accomodate much larger weights than a typical passenger car (not sure if the resolution is appropriate). Race car scales would be ideal for this activity.

e) In general I think you will find these cars are heavier than previously thought.

K

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by north

they are without me in the car but with 75 pounds of fuel

it shows you how much AC and all the power accessories add.

If you take the GTOAA guide book a 69 cvt weighs 3,722, add PS, PDB, AC, M20, you are at 3,867. From there I can easily see 100 lbs extra for all the extras like stereo, 8 track, power accessories, additional fuel etc

your car sounds light compared to the GTOAA guide; 3,637 plus HO, PS, PDB, radio equals 3,863 without you in the car.

One thing I've always wondered about was how much heavier a 70 was compared to a 69 with similar equipment. The door beams, floor braces and sway bars must have made a decent increase

I generally don't run much fuel in the car so that may be part of it - but why would the HO weigh any different than a 350? Aren't they dimensionally the same? What is the weight difference?

[north]

why would the HO weigh any different than a 350?

The main difference with the HO is probably dual exhaust. Also the 350 block has a bit less mass to it plus smaller carb, smaller radiator etc.

Are you sure that the weight is with you in the car, maybe they deducted you from the number they gave you

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by north

why would the HO weigh any different than a 350?

The main difference with the HO is probably dual exhaust. Also the 350 block has a bit less mass to it plus smaller carb, smaller radiator etc.

Are you sure that the weight is with you in the car, maybe they deducted you from the number they gave you

Pretty sure it's the car with me in it, but I'll get it weighed again here in a few weeks.

[north]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

A few random thoughts:

a) Good thread - we need to do this for '64/'65's too

b) I don't know that the GM weights are "unreliable" as much as the constraints are not widely understood. Off the top of my head I know the mass guys track:

Dry weight
Curb Weight
Base Curb Weight
EPA Curb Weight
Lightly laden weight
Shipping weight
Title weight
GVW (gross vehicle weight)

Each has it's own definition consisting of combinations of passenger loading, fuel load, luggage, etc based on the specific topic at hand. I never can remember the correct value and always have to go back to the "experts" to get the appropriate value for the application I am reporting in product literature, regulations and the like.

c) I do think, as you have found, the "delta" values are pretty accurate (ie, plus xx for A/C, plus xx for power steering, etc).

d) I don't know how accurate truck scales are in this case, since they must accomodate much larger weights than a typical passenger car (not sure if the resolution is appropriate). Race car scales would be ideal for this activity.

e) In general I think you will find these cars are heavier than previously thought.


K

As for the 64-65 I'd also love to see some real numbers, so many books refer to 150-200 pound increases due to "strengthening the frame" in 65 but this makes no sense since a frame doesn't weigh much more than that total.

What I mean by GM weights being unreliable is that some of them are obviously for the wrong model, for example using the base Tempest weight for a GTO; there is one year that the Pontiac spec sheet shows the convertible being 200 lbs lighter than the hardtop for probably that reason.

I weighed mine on a certified for trade 20,000lb fork lift scale. We have it tested twice a year and it's tested in the 2,000-10,000 pound range. I think the key here is to have lots of data by having lots of cars weighed.

Other factors to consider are undercoating and multiple paint jobs on a car, it does add up

[TCSGTO]

My 68 hardtop weighed 3820 with the stock motor/manifolds with ps,hideaways,automatic, 14x6 Ralleys,14" full spare tire in the trunk and near full tank. With aluminum heads,intake,headers, no front sway bar, 15x7 & 15x8 Ralleys, empty trunk and pretty much everything else the same but with a few more gallons in the tank it weighed 3680. Both without me in it.