[Icefan71]

I've been doing a lot of reading up on ethanol in fuel and its effects on our cars. Googling and youtubing goes from one extreme to the other. Some say its ruining their older cars and small engines. Others say its fine. Its amazing that you just can't get the simple truth.

Here's my observations. Now that my Lemans is roadworthy, I have noticed an obvious difference in its idle. With roughly 2 week old fuel, it has a significantly rougher idle. When I run it out of gas and then put fresh gas in it, there's a huge difference. Idle is much smoother. I've done this at least 3 times now with the same results. Granted, I still have ignition/carb tuning to do. But I can't ignore what I'm seeing/hearing for myself. As far as mpg and performance, I don't know since I haven't driven it enough. I think I'll have to keep the tank filled and try something like Stabil ethanol treatment. I've talked to some people that use it to fight off ethanol related problems and they say it works.

My daily drivers - I drive a 94 Toyota Camry and the wife has a 98 Ford Expedition. As far as I can tell I haven't seen any problems related to ethanol in these vehicles. But I wonder if there could be problems to come. I hope not. I don't think ethanol was added to fuel back when these cars were built. Do you guys do anything to treat cars this age? Anyone have any problems?

[GOAT WHORE]

Do a little more testing for yourself and go get some non ethanal fuel for your car. See if the idle quality changes when it gets a few weeks old.

[johnta1]

You're speaking of the 10% type gas with ethanol?
(not E85 or 85% ethanol)

Most newer vehicles like you have should be no problem with it.
The main problem is letting it sit, like a lawnmower.
It'll draw moisture which can corrode the carb.
The older fuel lines are not as compatible to the ethanol and can soften/destroy the line.
(Also the carb float needle if equipped)

If you're worried about gas mileage, it won't help any there.

So be smart about it and there is usually no problems.

[geeteeohguy]

Ethanol is a government mandated political maneuver. It has about 1/2 the energy of gasoline and pulls moisture out of the air. Because of this, it is corrosive to fuel systems that are not designed for it. It was not mixed with our fuels 'back in the day'. Cars modified with fat fuel delivery can run well on ethanol, and run very high compression due to its clean and cool burning. A good friend ran his '67 GTO on pure ethanol back in the '80's with the main jets removed from his q jet. He said the car ran very well and made a lot of power....and got about 5 MPG. As opposed to 15 mpg with gasoline.

[arbys]

The older cars don't have any provisions for the ethanol and the parts, especially rubber swell up and deteriorate quickly.

[Alvin]

Information links you may be interested in:

Ethanol Fuel and Vintage Vehicles
http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...s/viewall.html

Cliff Ruggles reply
http://cliffshighperformance.com/sim...php?topic=43.0

Also: There have been several PY threads which others here may be able to provide links to that have discussed this topic at length in the recent past.

[hurryinhoosier62]

There's a reason WHY ethanol or any form of alcohol is BANNED from aviation gasoline, including the EAA STC to use mogas in an aircraft. The fact that it's hydroscopic is the main concern. Some of the guys down here are buying 90 octane, ethanol-free marine fuel for their "rides".

[Icefan71]

Thanks for the feedback. Some of the searching I did was right here on PY. I still have much to learn. Since this is my 1st project vehicle, its my 1st experience with this. From the little bit that I learned, I don't see a whole lot of benefit from it. But thats a discussion probably more suited for the clubhouse. Am I right in thinking I need to keep the gas tank filled and use something like Stabil?

[geeteeohguy]

Yes, you are on track. Except on the 'little or no benefit" angle. There is NO benefit to running ethanol blended fuel. Only decreased fuel mileage and harm to your fuel system. Where I live, ONLY ethanol blended fuel is available, and it's at 10%. Terrible stuff, but we're stuck with it due to current laws.

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Ethanol is a government mandated political maneuver. It has about 1/2 the energy of gasoline and pulls moisture out of the air. Because of this, it is corrosive to fuel systems that are not designed for it. It was not mixed with our fuels 'back in the day'. Cars modified with fat fuel delivery can run well on ethanol, and run very high compression due to its clean and cool burning. A good friend ran his '67 GTO on pure ethanol back in the '80's with the main jets removed from his q jet. He said the car ran very well and made a lot of power....and got about 5 MPG. As opposed to 15 mpg with gasoline.

It amounts to BILLIONS in extra tax revenue from the consumer. There is nothing "green" when using corn stuffed into your gas tank.

Evil Ethanol

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...t=evil+ethanol

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

It amounts to BILLIONS in extra tax revenue from the consumer. There is nothing "green" when using corn stuffed into your gas tank.

Evil Ethanol

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...t=evil+ethanol

TY for the thread link post...have to know the thread title to do a PY search, sooo...

[Garry Sr]

Bad for your lungs, trust me on this...

[Deadhead]

It must be a problem, but... I ran the stuff in my '66 Bonneville from '84 until 2003 and I never replaced a fuel line or so much as rebuilt the carb. I started running it in high school b/c it was much cheaper and gas had gone way up to .84, and it cost me a lot to fill the tank. During that time, I did both daily driving and had periods where the car would sit for years, and then I would just get in, prime it and drive the car. I never had a fuel system issue. When I took the tank out to put it in another car, it was completely rust free inside.

I have small engines I have run the stuff in continuously since the early 1990s. Same deal. No ill effects.

I think that it has to do with regional mixtures of fuel. I know an executive from Refined Products at Exxon. I have talked to him about the business at length. There are so many formulations for the different regions that it boggles the mind. The chemical composition of all these is very complex, and the only thing that makes sense to me with all the various experiences we see is that it has to do with some of these combinations (that I am sure only the refiners really know). I suspect that ethanol is only one of a host of potential culprits. Many things are added to meet EPA requirements in something like 114 different regions throughout the country. I bet there is a correlation to areas that have smog testing in the inspection process. We have none of that here in my part of VA.

The only thing I notice about it is that it evaporates out of the bowl much more rapidly. Undoubtedly there are effects relating to hydration and power, but I have not experienced any failures here due to ethanol fuels. I just recently replaced an original near 50 year old return line with the cloth braids on my wagon, which has beed driven regularly the entire time.

Not defending the crap - just offering what I have gathered into the mix.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

Not defending the crap - just offering what I have gathered into the mix.

My experience matches yours dead on. A car that is driven semi-regularly in every place I've lived (California and Texas) has had zero issues with it. Old rotten fuel lines have failed on some cars, but usually they had sat for 10+ years without being driven or were exposed to sunlight. I can definitely tell that sometimes the idle quality on an older car can suffer, but a little adjustment on the carburetor cleans that up. And changing the mixture settings is still important as well.

Sure wish we didn't have it though. Absorbing water is not a good thing for a system exposed to air...

[straycat]

Haven't had any problems with my low compression 455 in a 68 GTO that doesn't see a lot of driving. Keep waiting for problems it's been running since ethanol came out everywhere.

[salem1912]

Most likely reason I had to replace the gas tank in my Corvette. The tank was new 6 years ago from GM,but developed two small pin holes in the lowest part of the tank(water).

[turbo69bird]

I destroyed a 67 RAI carb with 10% ethanol fuel locked it up solid.

However we run it in turbo cars ( like my fuel injected turbo charged 69) that are fuel injected and it loves the stuff. I run it in my 69 350 street bird with no drivability issues although Ive had to clean the carb a few times due to old rubber fuel lines breaking down.

Had some fuel line particles contaminate the system. New lines and some time solved that issue but it gets driven on and off enough to run through the fuel in the tank and I keep it full when parked.

[A.W.Dille]

I've had to go to the ethanol free gas in my 78 Chevy pick up. If I run the other stuff I have all kinds of carb problems, flooding, running rich and constant dying. It took me pulling the carb four times after I rebuilt it for me to change. Had to go to running it in my GTO also. No carb problems out of either since the switch. What I hate is the price but I'll pay it to keep me from having to work on them as often.

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

I destroyed a 67 RAI carb with 10% ethanol fuel locked it up solid.

However we run it in turbo cars ( like my fuel injected turbo charged 69) that are fuel injected and it loves the stuff. I run it in my 69 350 street bird with no drivability issues although Ive had to clean the carb a few times due to old rubber fuel lines breaking down.

Had some fuel line particles contaminate the system. New lines and some time solved that issue but it gets driven on and off enough to run through the fuel in the tank and I keep it full when parked.

Seems somewhat harmless to us car guys but not so much to an older gal and her son I ran into months ago at NAPA. Her car was slowly dying a certain death from the corn as it was not designed for it. Neither of them knew what was going wrong with the car and certainly didn't have the money to fix it or afford a different car. Very sad.

[turbo69bird]

Some of the boat guys had issues at first too but most seem to have worked out the issues