[1966geeto]

I walked out to my shop last night on a whim needed to get a manual was thinking about putting it off until the morning thank God I didn't .Earlier in the day smelt plastic burning smell while I was soldering some wires thought it was nothing but typical solder smell had shop fans on and smell went away. Closed the shop up for the night as I said came back out and smell was way stronger so I started checking everything this is what I found scared the crap outta me.



Woke me up real quick and taught me to trust my snoz when in doubt ck it out the only thing I cant understand is why the breaker did not trip any electricians out there.
I did not install them were in the shop when we brought the house 20 years ago needless to say all the breakers and sockets are getting changed out.

[65Mark]

Do you have a Zinsco service panel?

[69goatboy]

Are there any ground fault or arc fault outlets/breakers in the circuit?

I have switched out every electrical item as I've re-done the rooms in our house. I make sure that I use the "heavy duty" versions. At my previous house I had half a circuit go out. It turned out that I had a cheap "stab back" outlet that was over-wired that almost melted on itself. I've been paranoid about cheap electrical components ever since.

[Stuart]

My guess it's not the fault of the panelboard or any AFCIs or GFCIs - one of the connections on the receptacle itself was probably loose, creating resistance and therefore heat. There could be enough current to cause heat but still not be enough to overload the circuit breaker.

[Deadhead]

If there was a load on it, loose neutral side could cause this IME. If no load on it and there was a short, seems like it should have tripped. I would turn off the circuits and check the rest of the devices for tightness. If same guy did all of them… Also might want to deliberately attempt to trip the breaker or just replace it. All very cheap insurance.

Also, those are the cheapest wimpiest type device ever made. You should probably just replace all the ones that are similar to that.

Federal Pacific is another deadly panel brand. If you have one of those, you need to change the whole thing out immediately.

[poncho-mike]

Electrical wiring is a scary thing.

My house has a sub-panel in the crawlspace that provides power to the outside a/c units, the well, and the hot water heater. About ten to fifteen years ago, one of the a/c units quit working, so I went under the house to see if a breaker had tripped. I smelled something burning in the crawlspace, but didn't see any smoke. I don't remember if a breaker was tripped, but for some reason I pulled the cover off the breakers. I found the plastic insulator that separated the phases of the incoming wiring was so hot it was melting the plastic and the lug was tilted at an angle. I immediately knew I had a loose connection, so I killed power and tightened up the lugs on the incoming wire. I left the a/c off for a few days as a precaution, and picked up a new sub-panel.

A few days later I went into the crawlspace to replace the panel. When I pulled the old one off, I found the wood beam it was attached to was scorched black. I relocated the new sub-panel a few feet away hooked everything back upl.

I work in the power distribution industry, and I know connections can loosen (especially using aluminum conductors). Service people do IR scans on bolted and compression connections on a regular basis to make sure the connections aren't getting hot. A loose connection can quickly cause a fire.

When I bought my house, I thought all of my wiring was copper. I was surprised to find the large gauge wires from the main panel to the sub-panels were aluminum. Luckily all of the branch wiring is copper. I check the aluminum connections every year.

[carcrazy]

Agree with Deadhead. And by the way, anyone with a Federal Pacific Stab Lok panel should absolutely change it out-fire waiting to happen.

[arbys]

I found this on Google:


NOTE: The following only applies to Federal Pacific Stab-Lok panels as there are many Federal Pacific panels that were not
Stab-Lok models and have no history of being problematic. The words "Stab-Lok" will generally be stamped on the face of
the panel behind the door, or on the door itself.
What is the Issue?
Past manufacturer, field and lab testing on Federal Pacific Electric (FPE) "Stab-Lok" panels have established that the panels
and breakers have a significant failure rate. Failure to trip properly with overload and short-circuiting, are the basic safety
defects of this type panel. In over one-third of the panels tested, breakers would not trip when overloaded.
Some homeowners may believe that breakers never trip and therefore serve little function. In fact, the simple purpose of a
breaker is to prevent overheating and overloading of circuits, which can lead to fires. If the breaker does not operate or trip
properly, the potential of fire increases. Additionally, Stab-Lok panels can also have interconnection problems that can lead to
a higher risk of overheating.

[Deadhead]

Even the non Stab-loc kind have the flimsiest crappy breakers I have seen. I doubt that any insurance company would cover a building that had anything Manuf. by them in it. I had an insurance agent get me to change his out. He handed me this huge report on them and was completely freaked out, having lived in the house for 30 years.

[arbys]

So you're saying FPE is junky?

I'll be building in the next year and need to know these things.

[tigergto]

Just Had my Federal Pacific panel changed out this summer. Not sure if it was a stab-lok or not. When I read about the failure rate, I don't recall reading about a specific model. Any how I can rest easier knowing that the panel has been replaced. Back to the topic. Many people use a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit. That is fine most of the time but I would think if more than 15 amps but less than 20 is going through that receptacle it could melt and not trip the breaker. I'm not an electrician so please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Stuart]

In the US, the NEC allow two or more 15 amp receptacles to be used on a 20 amp circuit, and a standard duplex receptacle counts as two. They're all built with internals sized for 20 amps, so it's safe to do.

Federal Pacific panels have been out of production for probably 20 years now, so you don't have to worry about buying one new anymore.

[4dblnkldude]

I've seen worse than that and the breaker still didn't trip. There is a lot of insulation stripped off that wire to make the connections. I'm not an electrician but do small electrical jobs all the time like adding disconnects to ac units, new switches, up sizing breakers for stuff. And I ran into one federal pacific panel a few years ago, looked at it and walked away, IIRC it had the jumper bars in there that looked like a direct short.

[fiedlerh]

Federal Pacific is another deadly panel brand.

I had those in my first house. I was remodeling the kitchen and didn't know the previous owner drilled a hole in the conduit to install a fan speed control. Remove the speed control and the sharp edge of the hole cut the wire. Instant arc welder and fireworks because the FP breaker never tripped. Couldn't see for a few minutes. Even in the early days of the Internet, warnings were posted. That whole panel got changed. The houses 1957 wiring got changed too because it was the old vinyl insulation.

BTW it would be much safer to redo your garage in EMT. See if Deadhead will come down and do it. Should just take a day. ; )

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by fiedlerh

BTW it would be much safer to redo your garage in EMT. See if Deadhead will come down and do it. Should just take a day.

I assume you're in the Chicago area...that's one of the few places in the US where local codes call for conduit in residential applications. Nonmetallic cable (Romex) is commonly used everywhere else with no issues.

[fiedlerh]

Yup. EMT is nice because you can easily pull another circuit. When the NEC required separate 20 amp bathroom outlets, it was an easy (and much needed) upgrade.

What other parts of the country require EMT?

[Deadhead]

Ain't nothin' easy about pulling wire in a piece of 1/2" EMT! Maybe I am missing something not having done a large amount of it. Worked in a few old schools that had it. Issues when they used shared neutrals and we had to do GFIs etc. Also never understood when they broke the neutrals for switching. Always learning. And complaining.

AAhhhhhh sunny Florida. LOL

[Txbobcat]

I have had at least three electricians and two city inspectors tell me about federal pacific boxes burning down houses over the years. I had 4 or 5 of these in my rent houses and quickly changed them all out. Two houses I bought with them in the house. I demanded and got $1500 and $2000 off the price of these houses because of them. I just told the owners to call any electrician they wanted and ask about federal pacific boxes and the cost to replace them. They were happy to sell after the call.

[poncho-mike]

Many residential breakers are "plug in", meaning the breaker has a two contacts that are spring loaded. These press onto a blade on the panel board. Over time, the springs can lose tension, allowing the connection to get loose and overheat.

The second type is a bolted connection, which uses a #10-32 screw to bolt the branch breaker to the connection. These are more secure, and can be easily checked.

I have the blade type in my house, and I've had a few breakers go bad over the years. One got hot enough to melt the copper blade on the panel board.

[2002Z4CSS]

Lucky you found that.