[67gtospud]

I would like to rebuild my original starter out of my 67 GTO. Where do I find a rebuild kit with the parts I need? I was looking at this one but I'm not positive it's the correct one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251441525497...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Or this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191047558752...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Or this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delco-10MT-S...711261&vxp=mtr

[Mr Anonymous]

For individual parts, try National Automotive Lines in Shelbyville, IN. 800-428-4300. They sell by the piece.

[steve25]

Even if those kits came with the expensive and most times needed armature, how are you going to press in and out the armature bushings?

[Schurkey]

1. "Kits" come with cheap parts.

2. "Kits" don't include all the parts you're going to need.

3. Any NAPA or Carquest or other real parts store can sell you what you need.

• Front bushing
• Rear bushing
• Leather washer
• Starter drive
• Shift fork
• Brushes

You may or may not need a solenoid. Usually I pull the solenoid apart so I can polish the copper contacts including the big disc.

The shift fork can be "rebuilt" by using a welder to build-up the worn pads that move the starter drive. Then grind or file smooth. A new one is reasonably inexpensive, though.

When I select the starter drive, I pay extra for the five-roller units rather than the four-roller jobs.

Pushing the new bushings "in" is easy. Getting the old ones out is a pain in the ass. (hammer and specialty chisel)

If the starter works reasonably well now, and doesn't have excessive current draw, the electrical portion--the armature and field coils--are probably OK. You'll want to polish the commutator. Some folks insist on trimming the commutator with a lathe, and then undercutting the mica insulation. (Not needed most of the time.)

[lust4speed]

Which raises a question. If the commutator is cleaned up in a lathe, is it necessary to trim down the mica? I couldn't tell whether you were referring to using a lathe as usually not needed, or trimming the mica usually not needed.

[67gtospud]

The bushings and brushes are fairly worn but the commuter and armature appear to be in great shape.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Which raises a question. If the commutator is cleaned up in a lathe, is it necessary to trim down the mica? I couldn't tell whether you were referring to using a lathe as usually not needed, or trimming the mica usually not needed.

Ideally, both processes would be performed. Realistically, neither usually are needed. If a shop has the armature lathe, they probably also have the mica-saw. I have neither. I carefully inspect the armature bars for "smearing" (some copper from each bar may get "pushed" onto the mica next to the bar.) I remove any smeared copper with a fine pick. A foot of emery cloth to polish the copper, final cleaning...and I'm done.

[gtofreek]

Be sure to use the leather washers to shim the drive out until it is 3/4"-13/16" away from the center of the groove near the end of the armature shaft. The groove the clip sits in. Most of the time the drive is about 15/16" away. When this far away, the starter starts to spin just as the drive is trying to engage the ring gear, and sometimes it will grind on you.

Agree on the 5 roller drives compared to the 3 or 4 roller ones. 5 is much better.

[track73]

I have used a fine bastard file and turned the armature with an electric impact wrench. After the commutator was trued up you can uses a hack saw blade to get between the mica. Although I have not cleaned the mica and didn't notice a difference. It would be a good idea to have the armature checked in a growler though.

[stellar]

I am not sure if the 67 had mica or bakelite as an insulator, but if it is mica it should be undercut to a depth about as deep as the slot is wide. If it is bakelite, it should not be undercut at all. Put the new brush or a straight edge against the commutator and see if you can see any light near the center. Go all the way around. If so then it should be turned on a lathe. If you don't turn it true in a lathe the brushes will eventually wear in to the commutator, but if you are that far you may as well have it done. If the shift lever is worn near half way it should be replaced. The wear occurs on the return side and I have seen quite a few worn to 4/5 missing without causing any problems. The wear occurs when the starter is still spinning after engagement is released. The leather washer (sometimes called a brake washer) serves a dual purpose. It helps with the drive spacing and slows the starter from spinning as much when it disengages from the ring gear causing less wear on the shift lever. There are also thinner washers called fiber washers to achieve the proper spacing. Sometimes they are needed and sometimes they aren't.

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

Be sure to use the leather washers to shim the drive out until it is 3/4"-13/16" away from the center of the groove near the end of the armature shaft. The groove the clip sits in. Most of the time the drive is about 15/16" away. When this far away, the starter starts to spin just as the drive is trying to engage the ring gear, and sometimes it will grind on you.

Agree on the 5 roller drives compared to the 3 or 4 roller ones. 5 is much better.

I should elaborate on the washer. There are actually two places for washers. Some are leather, some are fiber. There is a washer that sits between the drive and the armature barrel, and there is a washer in the rear, on the commutator end. These are the brake washers as Stellar mentioned, and they also take up the forward and rearward movement of the armature.

Use the fiber/leather washer with the larger hole for spacing the drive to the 3/4"-13/16" distance I mentioned above, then lightly grease the shaft and slip on the drive, followed by the steel cup. Then work the steel wire clip onto the end of the shaft and tap it into the groove. You can use a 12 point socket that just slips over the armature shaft to tap the clip into place. Then the easiest way to get the steel cup over the wire clip is to install the steel "hat" washer on top of the wire clip, pull the steel cup up to the wire clip, then pinch the steel cup and hat washer together with a couple pairs of pliers[one on each side]. It will snap right together. Trying to pry the cup over the wire clip is futile.
Sometimes the armature shaft is not quite pressed all the way in to where it should be, and because of it, the drive sits far enough away from the groove in the shaft that you may need more than one washer to shim it right. That you just have to play by ear. Usually they are fine with just one new washer.

Use the fiber/leather washer with the small hole for the commutator end to take up any free play. You don't want it pinched tight, but you don't want the armature flopping back and forth either.

After you get the brushes on the commutator, I loosen the brush screws and seat the brushes squarely against the commutator, and tighten the screws.

Grease the bushings lightly.

If you have any alternator/starter rebuilders in your area, they can probably fix you up with anything you need.

[Cliff R]

It's getting harder and harder to find good parts, and anyone in your area that does this sort of stuff as a business.

For decades there were "old timers" around here that had full time shops building alternators and starters.

They retired or died off, and no-one has stepped up to take there place. I suppose a lot of it is the lack of work ethic with the younger generation, compounded by the fact that we have became a "throw-away" society.

I still rebuild all my own alternators, but quit doing starters over 10 years ago. These days we by the much smaller high torque mini-starters. They have gear reduction, less of a heat sink, and we've had 100 percent success with them in all Pontiac applications.

There is still nothing wrong with sticking to the original starters, if you can find good parts for them, and there are no problems internally with the windings/electric components.

Here's a pretty good read on starter rebuilding with pics:

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f63/diy-st...st-art-157825/


....Cliff

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

They retired or died off, and no-one has stepped up to take there place. I suppose a lot of it is the lack of work ethic with the younger generation, compounded by the fact that we have became a "throw-away" society.

....Cliff

This is pervasive in our society! I think it started with my generation, I'm 46 years old. It is damn near impossible to find Craftsmen these days because people just do not take pride in what they do.

[Dick Boneske]

In Wisconsin, we have an excellent auto electrical repair company. It's called Fondy Auto Electric. They will rebuild your starter so it works and looks like it did when new.

I've also had them do alternators, horn relays, and a later model air leveling compressor.

They DO have craftsman that take pride in their work--some older, some young. After my '64 GTO was running I took it to the Appleton location to show them what they had worked on. Everyone in the shop came outside to see my car---and looked very proud.


For me, it's a no-brainer!! Just be sure to tell them it's for an old car restoration and appearance is important.

http://www.fondyautoelectric.com/

[track73]

25 years ago school districts did away with Industrial arts/vocational education and gave it to the community colleges. Because of that a lot of kids didn't get to experience stuff that did 40-50 years ago. BTW I needed a starter for my '99 Buick a few years ago. I went to the GM dealer and got a GM rebuilt because it was somewhat cheaper. I read on the box that it was rebuilt in Indonesia. WTF? You can send starters 10,000 miles and back and it's cheaper than it can be can be done here?

[67gtospud]

I drive past Badger State Rebuilders everyday on my way to and from work. We've had them rebuild our starters and some alternators on our older trucks we use around the yard and for hauling wood. They do a great job and are very reasonable but I wanted to tackle this myself for a learning experience.

[stellar]

Give it a go. You can do it. If you get in trouble we can help or you can have Badger help you out.

[gtofreek]

You'll have fun doing it yourself, plus the pride of having done it yourself. It's really not that difficult. It just helps to know a couple of the little tricks to make things easier. Plus if the starter still spins, at least you know the field coils and armature are probably good. Good luck!

[Cliff R]

With all the good information that's been posted on starter rebuilding, I have went thru a few of them that tested fine with an ohm meter, and would chew up a 2x4 in the vise, but failed miserably once they were placed in service and fully heat soaked.

I suspected that the armature windings were failing once they heated up and load was applied to starter, even though they passed a static test when cold.

I seem to remember one of the "old timers" here using a "growler" to test them?......Cliff

[stellar]

What is an "old timer" ? The body hurts like its old and the mirror says its old, but the mind has a hard time processing that old timer crap. The mind feels like you can do what you did 40 years ago, but the body just isn't capable. I use a growler on every armature I use. I guess it is finally time to accept the fact I am becoming an "old timer". If you can find someone with a growler near you, use it. I recently sold 3 of them, and still have 2 left. Not for sale. The starter rebuilder near you will have one and it will only take a minute for him to test it.