[1967Tempest]

I have a very crusty Carter AFB. Not sure the model, as it is in the garage and I am not. But is there a market for these? Would it be worth tearing it down, having it cleaned etc and rebuilt?

I can imagine that a good rebuild etc.. will be north of $200.

Any information would be great,
Thanks
Dave

[steve25]

rebuilding it to sell you ask, or use, if to sell why do a thing except to note if it needs something like a throttle shaft bushing fix for the buyer?
Selling price, I don't know, I`ve got one sittin around myself!

[1967Tempest]

Yeah I guess rebuilding it to sell. It looks like it was sitting outside for a long time, so if I sold it now it would be for parts only.

I was curious just to see if it would be worth it. Having a back-up carb never hurt either..

Dave

[77 TRASHCAN]

Dave,
It would be a good carb for a 326, don't remember if it will bolt to any of your intakes.
Carbking here sells any parts you would need.
You still in N.J.???

[charles bledsoe]

I bought one that was rebuilt for my 66 GTO with a 389 and paid $325.00. Don't know but I thought I got a good price. Not sure what it cost to rebuild, but this one looks brand new.

[geeteeohguy]

It's a better carb that the Edelbrock copies that everybody sells and buys. Worth selling or building, IMO. I have two of them, but they've been stored inside for the past 35 years, so no corrosion, etc.

[JLMounce]

I'd be interested to know on this as well. I've got a 9800S Thermoquad in the shed. Trying to decide if I should rebuild and use that while I save for EFI, of if I should pony up for a QJET.

[b-man]

Rebuild a crusty AFB and expect to make money?

Unless it's a rare one forget it, not much demand for them.

Keep it for a future hot 326 build.

[RamAirIV28]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

It's a better carb that the Edelbrock copies that everybody sells and buys. Worth selling or building, IMO. I have two of them, but they've been stored inside for the past 35 years, so no corrosion, etc.

not true.

new or used the edelbrocks are as good or better.


I would sell it used at a used carb price and let the owner make rebuild decisions

[1967Tempest]

I will take a picture so yous guys can see it. Might make or break the conversation..

[Jerry H.]

Does it have the tag still attached with the # on it? If it is a desirable # (GTO or maybe one from a big car 2+2 or HO), then it MIGHT be worth the cost and effort of rebuilding.
If not a desirable #, then you'll never get your money back. Sell it as it is for someone else to rebuild or for parts,

I tend to agree with geeteeguy, a 'properly rebuilt' afb that is correct for the application will outperform the generic edelbrock aftermarket afb's.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by RamAirIV28

not true.

new or used the edelbrocks are as good or better.

I think Jon Hargrove, I, and a few other carb guys might disagree with you on that statement. Edelbrock carb on a SB Chebby is OK.
Booster design for the E-carbs came from that deal.
Not so good for a 389+ cid Pontiac engine vs a real Carter Designed AFB.

Tom V.

[RamAirIV28]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I think Jon Hargrove, I, and a few other carb guys might disagree with you on that statement. Edelbrock carb on a SB Chebby is OK.
Booster design for the E-carbs came from that deal.
Not so good for a 389+ cid Pontiac engine vs a real Carter Designed AFB.

Tom V.

well since its only an opinion......

I like the ebrocks, new or used; the support is there. I cant find diffinitive support for the afb's without being at the mercy of others, I've read Dave emanual book and even on the ebrock.... the manual on line is accessable and more readable. Daves book has been out and revised several times and still seems vague and not as informative.

I cant understand why everybody insist that the ebrocks only work on small block chevy's, how does any carb afb or ebrock know what pump is under it? and how come they work on fordsd and Chryslers too.

I hear criticism about AFB's vs Holley and Holley vs Qjet and afb's vs ebrocks from many people. I did a lot of research before I made my choices and buying two used Ebrocks and rebuilding them for a dual quad set up was the best deal. cheaper than a single new ebrock or a used and rebuilt afb. To me the knowledge I gained setting it up was as valuable if not more so than simply throwing money at some guru and being at their mercy when its time to fine tune. To me... this is important. Information access and parts support.

and as an aside. many people come on board here and bad mouth this carb or that. Present company excluded... but these people claime to have so much knowleg and access to dyno's. it does not seem right that they cant set up a carb to run right. I am very pleased with my set up and don't have anywhere near those resources. I attribute that atvantage to ebrocks information access on line and again parts support.

I

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by RamAirIV28

well since its only an opinion......

I like the ebrocks, new or used; the support is there. I cant find diffinitive support for the afb's without being at the mercy of others, I've read Dave emanual book and even on the ebrock.... the manual on line is accessable and more readable. Daves book has been out and revised several times and still seems vague and not as informative.

I cant understand why everybody insist that the ebrocks only work on small block chevy's, how does any carb afb or ebrock know what pump is under it? and how come they work on fordsd and Chryslers too.

I hear criticism about AFB's vs Holley and Holley vs Qjet and afb's vs ebrocks from many people. I did a lot of research before I made my choices and buying two used Ebrocks and rebuilding them for a dual quad set up was the best deal. cheaper than a single new ebrock or a used and rebuilt afb. To me the knowledge I gained setting it up was as valuable if not more so than simply throwing money at some guru and being at their mercy when its time to fine tune. To me... this is important. Information access and parts support.

and as an aside. many people come on board here and bad mouth this carb or that. Present company excluded... but these people claime to have so much knowleg and access to dyno's. it does not seem right that they cant set up a carb to run right. I am very pleased with my set up and don't have anywhere near those resources. I attribute that atvantage to ebrocks information access on line and again parts support.

I

If you were a "Carb Guy" you would understand that there is a lot more involved internally in the carb calibration vs just the basic size of the car and that it will bolt down on the intake.

Edelbrock is not going to spend the time that Carter Engineers and Pontiac Engineers spent developing True Carter carburetor calibrations for the Pontiac Engines in the 60s.

So Edelbrock does a calibration that works well for the high volume offering (which naturally happens to be a Small Block Chebby application).
Yes, the carb might function ok but it will not have the same characteristics as a "calibration specific" FACTORY pontiac deal optimized for either a 1966 421 engine or a 65 GTO 389 Engine.

That is the part that you are missing.

Course if you buy a good Air/ Fuel meter (like the one Shaker 455 has) and spend a bunch of time learning what each of the circuits actually do and how they interface with each other you will be pretty close. That being said, a $300 air fuel meter set-up IS NOT the same deal as a relatively inexpensive ($1450) LD 700 Air Fuel Meter from a company like Whipple Superchargers.

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1182

The OEMs used air/fuel meters that were ten times that expensive in the old carb days. I worked for Holley Carburetor at one time.

So my point is: If you take the time and own a GOOD air/ fuel meter I am sure that you could get close with your E-carb (enough to make you happy) but it is not the same as a FACTORY calibration from Carter, Rochester Products, or Holley. So Again, I agree with Jon Hargrove (A Carter Carb EXPERT).

Just saying.

Tom V.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

If you were a "Carb Guy" you would understand that there is a lot more involved internally in the carb calibration vs just the basic size of the car and that it will bolt down on the intake.

Edelbrock is not going to spend the time that Carter Engineers and Pontiac Engineers spent developing True Carter carburetor calibrations for the Pontiac Engines in the 60s.

So Edelbrock does a calibration that works well for the high volume offering (which naturally happens to be a Small Block Chebby application. Yes, the carb might function but it will not have the same characteristics as a "calibration specific" pontiac deal optimized for either a 1966 421 engine or a 65 GTO 389 Engine.

That is the part that you are missing.

Course if you buy a good Air Fuel meter (like the one Shaker 455 has and spend a bunch of time learning what each of the circuits actually do and how they interface with each other you will be pretty close. That being said, a $300 air fuel meter set-up IS NOT the same deal as a relatively inexpensive ($1450) LD 700 Air Fuel Meter from a company like Whipple Superchargers.

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1182

The OEMs used meters that were ten times that expensive in the old carb days.

So my point is: If you take the time and own a GOOD air/ fuel meter I am sure that you could get close with your E-carb (enough to make you happy) but it is not the same as a FACTORY calibration from Carter, Rochester Products, or Holley.

Just saying.

Tom V.

Tom - suppose I change out one carburetor for another on my car, both carbs flow the same and have the same AFR ratios as measured by a wideband. Is there any reason why one carb would seem to run better than the other, maybe atomization?

I ask because I recently swapped out one 850 double pumper style carb for another, I only did so to get a functioning choke. The AFR's on the new one aren't too different than they were on the old one, but for some reason the new one seems "crisper" at the same AFR's. Am I just imagining things?

[geeteeohguy]

Tom, very well put, and why I made my earlier, non-technical blanket statement. The whole advantage to an original AFB is that it is perfectly tailored to a specific Pontiac engine.....and not a generic "fits all" replacement. So, I stick to my guns. For the guys who like the Edelbrocks, great for them. I surely don't intend to use them on my Pontiacs.

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Tom, very well put, and why I made my earlier, non-technical blanket statement. The whole advantage to an original AFB is that it is perfectly tailored to a specific Pontiac engine.....and not a generic "fits all" replacement. So, I stick to my guns. For the guys who like the Edelbrocks, great for them. I surely don't intend to use them on my Pontiacs.

I'm not a 'carb guy' either, but to take it a step further, even Pontiac AFB's are very different from different years and trannys. For example, a carb from a 62 catalina automatic car, although same CFM, etc., will not run as well as the matching carb for a 65 GTO 4 speed car.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by i82much

Tom - suppose I change out one carburetor for another on my car, both carbs flow the same and have the same AFR ratios as measured by a wideband. Is there any reason why one carb would seem to run better than the other, maybe atomization?

I ask because I recently swapped out one 850 double pumper style carb for another, I only did so to get a functioning choke. The AFR's on the new one aren't too different than they were on the old one, but for some reason the new one seems "crisper" at the same AFR's. Am I just imagining things?

Atomization is actually a pretty big thing in carburetion. Ideally you would like all of the fuel to mix well with the air before entry into the cylinder. One reason for the triple booster design on some q-jets. The annular discharge Holleys suck up some airflow but seem to drive better on the street.

So the same deal applies to the booster configuration used in AFBs. Some are better vs others. Not bad mouthing E-Carbs just saying that when you pay a Carter or Holley carb Engineer his wages for months of testing on a given application to "dial it in" How can a generic calibration come close unless it was the luck of the draw?

TV

[charles bledsoe]

Hi Tom-

As long as were are on this discussion of the AFB's for Pontiac's being tuned for a specific engine. Could having the wrong one cause major problems. The reason I ask is when I bought mine it was suppose to be for a 66 Pontiac. That was all he could say as it didn't have a tag on it when he rebuilt it. I have a problem with stumbling if I punch the peddle real fast in park. With a load on it (in drive standing still) and punching it the car will die. If I take off slowly it runs ok. At speed if I try to kick down on it, after a few seconds it will sputter till I back off of it.

A little back ground: the engine is not a GTO engine, it is a 66 Catalina B body engine that was a 2bbl car. I put a correct 66 4bbl intake on it as well as the AFB. The throttle linkage is jury rigged by me, as the original cable is for a Rochester 2 bbl carb. I also have not checked the timing since I swapped out intakes/carbs. So I'm hoping this might be my problem or at least a contributor.

Is there a way I can tell the application of my AFB without the tag? Any suggestions on how to overcome the stumbling, hesitation, and stalling/dyeing of the engine.
Thanks.

[Skip Fix]

I can tell you dual 600 Eddy carbs can work fine on "she's real fine my 409" Just jetted a step leaner than out of the box had decent power and bsfc's on it.

The '09 guys have had decent luck with them on dual quad setups.

Now original 409 AFBs are worth selling even rough. If you have the tag on it that will tell you if it is worth anything for a Pontiac or Chevy.