[whittp]

I'll try to make this complete as possible. Two weeks ago I took my car in a parade and it idled for a couple of hours. It did great and didn't overheat or act up in any way even though it was 90 plus degrees outside. When I got it home I parked it in the driveway and it sat a few hours. When I went to move it in the garage, it wouldn't start. It turned over fine just very little fire only sputtering.

I've checked and replaced several parts here's the list.

I've confirmed it's getting fresh fuel. There's no air restriction so I figured it must be ignition. It's an Acell 52102 unit with the Acell coil. The coil has 12 volts with the key to on. The coil primary and secondary resistance is within specs. I replaced the ignition module and no change. I replaced the pickup and checked the clearance between it and the reluctor and I got it to fire up and idle for a few minutes.

The timing was way too far advanced so I figured I got it off a tooth or 2. I pulled it out to fix it and now I can't get it started again. I assumed I got it in wrong so I found TDC for #1 (stuck a pencil in and checked to make sure the piston was up). Got the #1 wire on the cap aimed to the rotor at #1.

Still nothing only sputters. I've moved the distributor around in a full range of motion and all the way advanced it is hard to crank and all the way retarded it will sputter and backfire out the tailpipe. I would think it should start somewhere in the middle!

One thing I've noticed is that I've had my timing light hooked up while cranking and the light is very irratic. The last time I tried to crank it it didn't light up at all. I'm open to suggestions but I'm about ready to scrap this distributor and start over.

[428goat]

How did the timing get off? How old is your timing chain? Maybe ignition coil had died.

[steve25]

By the grace Of God I have had two cars that the timing chain went when I shut the car off in my driveway, and that sounds to me like your issue at this point if is the chain is old!
Pull the cap off and take out all the spark plugs, than grab the balancer and rock the crank back and forth.if you can move the crank a half inch either way and not see the rotor move much than its time for a new chain and gears!
Another thing to check is that the outer ring on the motors balancer has not moved and is throwing off your timing adjustments!
When both valves are closed on number 1 at TDC, than the exhaust valve on number 6 should be open, so check that out as if you chain is good this check can pin things down better.

[whittp]

I've checked the rotor to make sure it spins while the engine is being turned over and it looks right. The engine only has about 400 miles on it so hopefully the chain isn't loose! I also replaced the coil with no change.

[mchell]

Sure you're not 180 out?....a VERY small Turn of the dist equals a lot of advance or retard.....have some crank it while you turn it very slight amount, if it's close it should start

[whittp]

I guess I'm not 100% certain it's not 180 degrees off. The way I checked was to remove the plug and put a piece of tissue in there. As I turned the crank I just listened for it to get blown out. Then I took the #1 piston to TDC and set it from there.

Will it blow out the tissue on the exhaust stroke as well? If so, I could be off.

[dmac]

Best way to tell is by removing the vale cover and actually watching the intake valve closing. You can also get a good idea as to whether the balance has slipped a lot. You timing marks could be off.

[69Farburd]

If it was running good before you shut it off, your timing wasn't off 180 degrees. It could be now that you messed with it though. Have someone tap the ignition key while you hold your thumb over the No. 1 spark plug hole. When the compression blows past your thumb, you will know you are on the compression stroke. Then set your timing to zero with the rotor pointing at the number one spark plug wire. That should get you close enough to start it. Have you checked your spark plugs? If it is running rich, they could be fuel soaked from all that time spent idling. Next, pull your coil wire off the distributer cap and hold it close to the intake or something else metal, have someone crank the engine over and make sure you are getting spark.

[GOLDOHC]

Make sure your battery is good and fully charged. The spark should jump at least a half inch to ground

[steve25]

You also need to check the spade connectors on the module where the wires are crimped down, as many times these are dangling by two strands of the wire and will then not pass enough current to power the circuit, BUT IT WILL POWER A TEST METER JUST FINE, so take note of that!
Also check the wires within the distributor itself for dry rot cracks that could be making for shorting issues to the body or other parts of it.
Since it sounds like a HEI type make sure that the out side slip on wire connector has its spade connectors going over the other end of the spade right, and also that the connectors grip each other tight, as these loose tension with age and heat and do not do there job well.

Your lake of a steady good spark reading with a timing light will likely be found in the powering of the dizzy, or inside it!

[whittp]

I made sure the battery was fully charged and it's showing 12 volts at the coil. I double checked all the connections inside the distributor and it looks good. I verified 12 volts getting to the module also.

My last try yesterday didn't get it fired up. I pulled the #1 plug again and checked for spark. It's giving me a steady strong blue spark so it just seems to me that the timing must be off. I pulled the valve cover and looked at the first 2 valves open and close for the #1. I'm pretty sure the 2nd valve from the front is the intake so as that closed I watched the rotor spin around to pretty much where I had the #1 wire pointed. The mark on the damper is right on also.

Next idea please!

[steve25]

Have someone crank the motor while you spin the dizzy back and forth, if
you have fuel and compression and the timing set close to number one, than the motor should get to cranking hard when you get too far advanced before number one!
Also from all of this messin around, make sure your plugs are not gas fouled?
Like I posted before, number 1 is at TDC when number 6 exh is showing open.

[whittp]

If I take the plug out and crank it and it shows a strong blue spark the plug is ok right? I'll double check the #6 exhaust valve being open. I have tried turning the distributor to several differnet positions after I set the #1 wire to TDC. It will make a rumbling noise like intermittent firing when in the middle, twist it too far clockwise and it will be hard to turn over and backfire out the carb, twist too far CCW and it will backfire out the tailpipe. Will it still do this if it's 180 degrees out? It seems like it should be starting in the middle.

[69Farburd]

Did you check to make sure the carb is pumping gas? Could be a clogged fuel filter.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Have you looked at all the plugs recently?, to make sure they are not all wet w/ gasoline, form all the starting attempts???

In Jim Hands book he attached a ground wire to one of the vacuum advance screws and attached the other end the the intake. to doubly make sure the dist was grounded, I'd go one step further and from the intake I'd run a wire to the firewall.
Does your battery ground cable have a small wire grounding to the body also?, if not I'd make that connection also. No such thing as too many grounds.

If you've got the driver side valve cover off, the the 2nd valve back IS the #1 intake, when it closes, and that piston is at the top, THAT is where the rotor should be pointing to #1 cyl on your cap, and Pontiac distributors turn counter clockwise 18436572

If you lived down the street from me, I'd be there...

[pugslyx234]

Ok lets recap, fuel, spark, oxygen, and Good Compression. Recheck dizzy at # one plug hole of compression stroke then add alittle fuel or ether down in the carb and also make sure you have Volts after the key is released to the run position. Hope some of this helps ya.

[whittp]

Well I'm 99% sure the rotor is pointing in the right direction. The grounds right now are both the firewall to head straps and the RH inner fender to frame strap. The distributor is grounded to the coil bracket which is attached to the head. I have looked at the plugs and they are pretty dark and have gas on them after I've tried to start it a couple of times. If I can get a good spark on the plug when I try it out of the engine isn't it still ok?

[77 TRASHCAN]

A good blue spark by testing out of engine is O.K.

I'd still pull all of the plugs, clean them with carb spray, blow them off w/ compressed air, before next attempt...