[north]

Sorry for the wandering subject matter in this thread but I picked up a copy of Collectible Automobile yesterday and the article on the 68-72 Cutlass line completed my production stats collection for US built A bodies.

I totaled up each division and the following stats were striking, they really show the decline in Pontiac in the market in the early 70's (in '000's);

68 69 70 71 72
Chev 491 550 488 387 451
Pont 347 400 304 224 262
Olds 306 281 310 264 335
Buick 227 189 226 183 225

The above numbers include the A specials (GP and Monte Carlo), if you remove them it is even worse for Pontiac especially against Olds and Buick who didn't have an A special.

Pontiac's share of A body production fell from 25% in 68 to 14% in 72 (from solid second place to soundly last).

I've always assumed the big drop in Pontiac sales in 70 was due to the big recession that year but if you compare the divisions Pontiac dropped about 25% while Chev only dropped about 10% while Buick and Olds actually gained.

So why did Pontiac tank in 70-72? I guess part was the decline in the performance car but in reality the SS, GS and 442 tanked much less than the GTO in 70-72 and the GS actually gained in 70 over 69.

My best guess is styling, in 68 all 4 divisions had a similar look with a sporty rounded shape and the Pontiac was the best looking of the bunch. In 70 Chev, Olds and Buick all went with a much more conservative squared off shape with less "fastback" in the roof line. Pontiac went to a revision of the same look with unaltered rooflines.

You can argue today about if the 70-72 look was a step back from the 68-69 for Pontiac but I think it was clear that in 68 Pontiac A bodies were in style but the 70-72's were out of sync. This fall in Pontiac midsize market share worsened substantially in the poor 73-77 redesign.

The same thing happened a few years earlier with the fullsize, from 63-66 Pontiac big cars were at the top of their game being "the" car to have, but each year after that they slipped further and further. By the early 70's fullsize Pontiacs were disappearing from the sales race.

If it wasn't for the Firebird-Trans Am and the Grand Prix I doubt Pontiac would have survived the 70's as a division.

[MikeNoun]

Wow, great number crunching here. I too often wondered why the 1969-1970 Pontiac A-body production dropped off so quickly.

Some thoughts:

Much of it may be due to the arrival of the all-new 1970 Firebirds. Notice that Chevrolet A-body production also dropped off quite a bit in 1970 over 1969. There were many that believed that Chevrolet had too many models (they did) and they wanted to provide a car for every type of buyer, and every level of income. I think the arrival of the all-new 1970 Camaros took a bite out of Chevrolet A-body sales the same way the new Firebirds bit into Pontiac A-body sales. Oldsmobile and Buick didn't have a sporty car, just one model each (Skylark and Cutlass) that they molded into economy versions, station wagons, high performance versions, and grocery getter models.

I think the most stunning figure is the 1970-1971 Pontiac A-body dropoff. Oldsmobile and Buick A-body production rose substantially, while Chevrolet and Pontiac both had drop offs. For Chevrolet, the A-Body drop may partly explained with the arrival of the Vega, which took a decent chunk of potential Chevrolet A-Body buyers who wanted a smaller car with better fuel economy. But for Pontiac, hmmmm....not sure here.

Perhaps the Sept-Nov 1970 GM worker walkouts may have impacted Pontiac sales more severely than the other divisions. The new management at Pontiac (beginning Feb 1969) began cutting costs, and focused more on "just in time" production methods. Perhaps when the strike hit, which would have affected the first 1971 models, Pontiac may have been caught with low reserves, while the other divisions may have had a much greater supply of built cars.

We can see a healthy rebound in A-Body sales from 1971-1972. I'm guessing that the public now understood that low compression was the wave of the future, and new safety features were becoming more and more appealing. Styling hadn't changed much between 1971-1972 A-bodies, so I can't see too many other reasons why the A-Body market rebounded other than low compression, and perhaps again due to people downsizing from full-sized models, and perhaps the 1971 model year GM strike having impacted sales.

['ol Pinion head]

'70 recession and Fall of '70 UAW strike took their toll on '71 A body sales. Effects of recession, strike, perceived lower performance, and Toucan Sam nose styling didn't help the '71 GTO's. Think about it, Pontiac was only division with two distinctly different frontend treatments on their '71 Abodys, & for once, the look of the GTO frontend was not "the look". Not a lot of f/e differences in Chevy, Olds, and Buick camp... just upgraded performance styled grilles, hoods and occasionally, rear bumpers.

After recanting with several dealer principals, ex sale mgrs, along with quite a few original owners, my own belief is '72 GM A body sales were up with many wanting to get the last of the '70-72 body styles. Renderings and pics were out in the automotive press well before the '73's were introduced, due to this models delay, and many wanted to get one of the last of an era, not just convertibles.

Agree with Mike Noun 100% on effect of the styling of the new Camaro and Firebirds, definitely took a bite out of Chevy & Pontiac A body sales.

[north]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

'70 recession and Fall of '70 UAW strike took their toll on '71 A body sales. Effects of recession, strike, perceived lower performance, and Toucan Sam nose styling didn't help the '71 GTO's. Think about it, Pontiac was only division with two distinctly different frontend treatments on their '71 Abodys, & for once, the look of the GTO frontend was not "the look". Not a lot of f/e differences in Chevy, Olds, and Buick camp... just upgraded performance styled grilles, hoods and occasionally, rear bumpers.

After recanting with several dealer principals, ex sale mgrs, along with quite a few original owners, my own belief is '72 GM A body sales were up with many wanting to get the last of the '70-72 body styles. Renderings and pics were out in the automotive press well before the '73's were introduced, due to this models delay, and many wanted to get one of the last of an era, not just convertibles.

Agree with Mike Noun 100% on effect of the styling of the new Camaro and Firebirds, definitely took a bite out of Chevy & Pontiac A body sales.

The climb in 72 Pontiac was all the GP, regular Abody stayed flat.

Apart from the Firebird and to some degree the GP early 70's Pontiacs were simply no longer the styling image cars they had been in the 60's.

[gtohurstjudge]

Originally Posted by north

The climb in 72 Pontiac was all the GP, regular Abody stayed flat.

Apart from the Firebird and to some degree the GP early 70's Pontiacs were simply no longer the styling image cars they had been in the 60's.

Agreed. the 68 and 69 cutlass and skylark were not very attractive cars compared to the Pontiac A-body, but they were very much improved and better looking than Pontiac
when they were restyled for 70-72.

[MikeNoun]

I forgot one other factor that most likely pulled sales away from the 1971 Pontiac A-Bodies.

The introduction of the sub-compact 1971 Pontiac Ventura II. They sold over 47,000 of those in 1971.

[GOAT WHORE]

Love all the info and opinions.

[Scarebird]

An aging demographic is also key - Olds kicking Pontiac off 3rd place in the Seventies reflects this. If you thought the 71-72 Goat styling was questionable, the 73-75 A was even worse while the Cutlass' solid styling gained popularity.

[Diego]

I gotta wonder if the Chevy numbers include the Monte Carlo?

If so, you should add the Grand Prix to the Pontiac side.

Also, are you sure 1969 number for certain brands are higher than 1968? In fact, there's several numbers that don't agree with the Ward's Yearbook(s) that I have.

[north]

The numbers do include the Monte and the GP. The pontiac numbers come from several different books that are all identical. The olds numbers come from the new CA issue and the Buick and chevy numbers I found online with several sources providing the same numbers.

The gray zone is perhaps Canada, the above numbers include cars produced in Canada (for sale in the US and/or canada). The only numbers missing are for the Beaumont, haven't found them yet. They stopped production after 69 so when I add them the decline in 70-72 will be even worse.

An example of how pontiacs lost there edge in that era was my own dad; he bought a new car every two years and he was a GM man. He only ever had one pontiac, a 63 fullsize convertible. He Always had olds and buicks. The reason he bought that 63 was because it was the best looking car on the road that year. Early seventies pontiacs full or mid sized were not standout cars.

If you look at early muscle cars the GTO stands out because every part of it looks "real" and sporty; body shape, dash and interior while competing cars looked like half baked wannabes with a big engine and stripes trying to conceal that the basic car wasnt really a sporty car. This applied to even the big cars, pontiacs exuded youthful, modern sportiness.

In the 70's when the trend shifted from sporty to fancy the tables turned on Pontiac. More formal brands like Oldsmobile fit right in and pontiacs suddenly looked like wannabes. Duds like the luxury LeMans or various broughams came off as cheap cars trying to look like something they weren't.

Not to the same extent of success but in the mid 80's to mid 90's the tables turned again pontiacs way when mainstream cars went sporty again. Pontiac caught the wave with cars like the grand am, bonneville and Grand Prix that all had a sporty shape inside and out. Meanwhile Buick and olds were stuck with new truncated versions of formal cars like front drive little cutlasses, park avenues and rivieras that no longer looked successful and when made into sports versions looked silly and bogus.

Comes around goes around.

[GTO JOHN]

Great analysis north and good opinions shared by others. The numbers and theories behind them are fascinating to me.

[MikeNoun]

Also interesting is that they were seriously considering discontinuing the F-Body in 1972. Although sales were off from 1971 partly due to the strike, they only sold 29,951 Firebirds in 1972, and things looked grim. By 1979 you'd think that an aged body design that had had only minor facelifts since 1970 would be on its last legs, but Pontiac sold a staggering 211,455 Firebirds in 1979. Styling won over practicality.

They did sell a boatload of A-bodies between 1973-1977, with the Olds Cutlass being the sales leader. In fact, it was the #1 selling American car in 1976.

For me, styling declined rapidly when I saw my first 1978 Cutlass Salon. Things became worse in 1980 when the new X-body appeared (Citation, Phoenix, Omega, and Skylark). The early 80's were very depressing times.

[Diego]

I have no problem with the X-car - I think they were smartly styled for the time.

[JD311]

I was looking up a friends 68 chevelle and it says us production was 464,699 and canadian was 26,118. It was on chevellestuff.net just to let you know......

[68BeaumontSD]

The Beaumont production numbers are listed below.
James

1964 8815
1965 8910
1966 12827
1967 12334
1968 14420
1969 16731

[north]

The irony is that those "fake" fullsized canadian Pontrolets sold much better than their American cousins did. In the mid to late 60's Pontiac was neck and neck in Canada with market share pushing 20% while in the US market share was below 10%.

Price was a major factor, the extra price difference from an equivalent chevy was 1/3 that of US Pontiacs thanks to much less exclusive content. Basically you were buying a chevy with Pontiac sheetmetal and dashpad, everything else was pure chevy.

I hate to speak such sacrilege but I wonder if the same formula had been used in US would there have been much higher production in the US? Did the majority of car buyers really see extra value in having a Pontiac engine and chassis, or was he just buying the look and perceived status of being a notch up from chevy?

Ironically in the 70's Pontiac went down this path but the wrong way with cars that had pontiac badges but not pontiac styling like the Ventura II etc

[Diego]

I'm a little confused - are you saying that the Canadian Pontiac sold better than the American Pontiac in Canada?

[north]

No, Full size US Pontiacs were not sold in Canada until the early 70's.

Canadian built Pontiacs (Chevyiacs) sold in Canada at twice the market share that US built "true" Pontiacs sold at in the US

[north]

thanks btw 68BeaumontSD for the production numbers, by any chance would you know the model and bodystyle breakdown of the 68 and 69 models?

While fullsize US pontiacs were sold in Canada starting only in the early 70's other models were available sooner..
Firebird from 67 on
GTO and GP from 69 on
LeMans etc from 70 on (hence the end of the Beaumont after 69)

Any US Pontiac could have been special ordered earlier in Canada but at very high prices.

In the years before NAFTA there was an Autopact between Canada and the US which basically exempted from tariffs any US cars sold in Canada if the manufacturer built a like amount of cars in Canada. If GM built 100,000 cars in Canada they could sell 100,000 cars in Canada tariff free regardless of where those cars had been built.

Special order cars (such as US built Pontiacs before the above years) were hit with big tariffs. for example I know a guy who bought a pretty basic 67 GTO coupe here and he paid close to $7,000 for a car that would have retailed for $4,000 in the US or as compared to a Beaumont SD that he could have bought here for $3,500.

Sales of these special order Pontiacs were miniscule.

[68BeaumontSD]

1968 Beaumonts 1968- 14,420 produced
priced betwen $2,748 to $3,3599


Model # Description

73127 Beaumont 6 cyl Two door sedan

73135 Beaumont 6 cyl Four door wagon 6 pass (279 produced)

73227 Beaumont 8 cyl Two door sedan (401 produced)confirmed

73235 Beaumont 8 cyl Four door wagon 6 pass (340 produced)

73327 Beaumont Deluxe 6 cyl Two door sedan

73337 Beaumont Deluxe 6 cyl Two door hardtop (600? produced)

73369 Beaumont Deluxe 6 cyl Four door sedan

73427 Beaumont Deluxe 8 cyl Two door sedan ( 255 produced) confirmed

73437 Beaumont Deluxe 8 cyl Two door hardtop (1894 produced?)

73469 Beaumont Deluxe 8 cyl Four door sedan

73535 Beaumont Custom 6 cyl Four door wagon 6 pass (39 produced)

73537 Beaumont Custom 6 cyl Two door hardtop (407 produced)

73539 Beaumont Custom 6 cyl Four door hardtop

73567 Beaumont Custom 6 cyl Convertible (42 produced)

73569 Beaumont Custom 6 cyl Four door sedan

73635 Beaumont Custom 8 cyl Four door wagon 6 pass

73637 Beaumont Custom 8 cyl Two door hardtop (3477 produced) confirmed

73639 Beaumont Custom 8 cyl Four door hardtop

73667 Beaumont Custom 8 cyl Convertible ( 350 produced) confirmed 47 convertibles built with L73 250 HP 327 (models 13667 and 73667)


73669 Beaumont Custom 8 cyl Four door sedan

73837 Beaumont Sport Deluxe 8 cyl Two door hardtop (680 produced + 22 exported total 702) confirmed

73867 Beaumont Sport Deluxe 8 cyl Convertible (65 produced)confirmed