[Blued and Painted]

Is the 4 gen bird really 500 lbs lighter than the 2 gen?

A quick search shows the 4 gen @ 3300 lbs.. Or is that with the V-6?

Would you need a shoe horn to install a pontiac engine?

[78w72]

not sure on the weight differences, but there is a recent thread on here where a member is putting in a pontiac engine in his 4th gen. looks like some mods required but it will fit.

[b-man]

LS1 4th-gen coupe is around 3500+, convertbles right at 3600.

Take into account that the all-aluminum V8 is around 150 to 200# lighter than a Pontiac iron V8.

On the average you might see a 200# weight savings using the 4th-gen car, 2nd-gens are around 3600 to 3900 depending on year and equipment.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by b-man

LS1 4th-gen coupe is around 3500+, convertbles right at 3600.

Take into account that the all-aluminum V8 is around150 to 200# lighter than a Pontiac iron V8.

On the average you might see a 200# weight savings using the 4th-gen car, 2nd-gens are around 3600 to 3900 depending on year and equipment.

iirc the 1970 Firebird Formula & Trans Am were rated at 4,500# ~ which is how the top (official optional) engine (L74/RAIII) was rated at 345hp, and the step down L78 was rated at 330hp - while the same engines in the heavier A-body had ratings of L74/366hp & L78/350hp.
I say this because of the unwritten rule GM had of max 10lb/1hp.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

iirc the 1970 Firebird Formula & Trans Am were rated at 4,500# ~ which is how the top (official optional) engine (L74/RAIII) was rated at 345hp, and the step down L78 was rated at 330hp - while the same engines in the heavier A-body had ratings of L74/366hp & L78/350hp.
I say this because of the unwritten rule GM had of max 10lb/1hp.

Yes I am aware of how the F-body and A-body cars were given different horsepower ratings because of their different curb weights.

I'm curious, have you ever weighed your 1970 Firebird?

I remember putting my brother's fully-optioned 69 Firebird on the scale at our local drag strip and it surprisingly weighed in at 3750#.

[JC455]

I think he meant 3500#'s.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by JC455

I think he meant 3500#'s.

I saw the typo right away.

[johnta1]

I can still remember the look on my friend's face one day when we went to way our cars.

Mine was a 70 Formula with just PS and PB, all original.
(may still have had the spare in trunk not sure of that)

His was a 1970 Chevelle with the 454 engine.
He kept blowing how light my car was and how he was handicapped at least 200 lbs.
(his was all stock also, had the cowl induction steel hood)

We weighted them on the same scale at the same time.

His was 3600 lbs.
Mine was 3650 lbs.

[b-man]

The 2nd-gen Firebirds aren't the lightweights that the factory literature makes them out to be.

Add A/C and other power options and they can get pretty heavy, as the years went by the weight went up with them becoming more luxury-oriented.

The 4th-gen cars all came fully optioned for the most part, so they're fairly light considering all the power and luxury equipment they were built with.

[ponyakr]

"...Would you need a shoe horn to install a pontiac engine?"


I was about to buy a 4th gen to make a bracket car--that is, until I raised the hood. There's not even room to change plugs, down beside those huge strut towers.

I saw a show where they were going to change engines in one of 'em. I was real interested in seeing how they got it in out and in. They cheated ! Didn't even try. Raised the car up on a lift and dropped the entire front subframe, with the engine still attached.

But Peter Biondo and Leo Glassbrenner race 4th gen GT Super Stockers. So, I'll bet they could shed some light on exactly what it would take. I read that the Butlers also put a Pontiac engine in at least one. So there is another source of info about it.

[ponyakr]

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ht=4th+gen+455

I'm guessing it will take a lot of fabrication work.

[SMW]

My 1973 Firebird Esprit weighs 3,844 pounds with a full tank of gas.
front left is 1154, front right is 1120
left rear is 780, right rear is 790

[4dblnkldude]

B man that's 3750 without driver, correct? Wow that is heavy. My 79 firebird weighed that and I always thought it was incorrect being as it was weighed on a scrapyard scale. My 69 weighs 3400 with 1/2 tank of gas, no a/c, stick, 9 inch, e heads, bigger front sway bar, and two radios. LOL

[1971WARBIRD]

if I remember right, one of the 71-72 Ventura's was the lightest factory bodies?????

[b-man]

Originally Posted by 4dblnkldude

B man that's 3750 without driver, correct? Wow that is heavy. My 79 firebird weighed that and I always thought it was incorrect being as it was weighed on a scrapyard scale. My 69 weighs 3400 with 1/2 tank of gas, no a/c, stick, 9 inch, e heads, bigger front sway bar, and two radios. LOL

Correct, no driver. At least a half tank of gas.

This Firebird 350 is fairly well loaded up with factory options - A/C, power driver's seat, power disc brakes and steering, TH400 with console. Has 15X7 Rally IIs all around including the spare, 2-1/2" full dual exhaust and long-branch exhaust manifolds.

E-heads and aluminum intake drop an easy 75 pounds, factory A/C likely weighs 125 pounds.

Pretty easy to see where most of that extra 350 pounds came from. I didn't think it would be that heavy. Imagine if it had a folding rear seat!

[Schurkey]

Thousands and thousands of years ago, I was driving a hand-me-down '66 Biscayne 4-door, and one of my friends had a '65 Impala.

My Biscayne was called "The Pig" because of it's enormous weight and inability to get out of it's own way. (True problem was the 283 2-barrel and especially the Powerglide.)

The two of us were quite amazed to discover that the typical 2nd Gen F-body weighed more than either of our two full-size cars. I've thought the 2nd Gen F-body was bloated ever since. I cannot imagine where all the poundage is hidden, but a scale will tell the tale.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Thousands and thousands of years ago, I was driving a hand-me-down '66 Biscayne 4-door, and one of my friends had a '65 Impala.

My Biscayne was called "The Pig" because of it's enormous weight and inability to get out of it's own way. (True problem was the 283 2-barrel and especially the Powerglide.)

The two of us were quite amazed to discover that the typical 2nd Gen F-body weighed more than either of our two full-size cars. I've thought the 2nd Gen F-body was bloated ever since. I cannot imagine where all the poundage is hidden, but a scale will tell the tale.

Doors.....

[71firebird400]

My brother's '98 Z/28 6-speed with T-Tops was 3310lbs, and my '00 Z/28 6-speed with hardtop was 3340lbs. No driver, about half a tank in both cars. My '71 Firebird with iron heads, aluminum intake, and TH350 was 3560 lbs on the same scale.

[Will]

Originally Posted by SMW

My 1973 Firebird Esprit weighs 3,844 pounds with a full tank of gas.
front left is 1154, front right is 1120
left rear is 780, right rear is 790

Just about the same as my '72 Formula when it was stock. Auto trans and A/C really push the weight up.

I'm going to see how light I can get my '73 with no fiberglass body parts. Thinking I can probably get it down to around 3100-3200#. I swapped a '72 nose onto it and it has a 4-speed and am planning to keep it really stripped down.

Well, I might do a fiberglass trunk lid. Those trunk lids are stupid heavy!

[1971WARBIRD]

might want to think about that trunk lid? it is behind the rear wheels so the weight will help traction, just a thought. even on a street car, would help to balance the front rear weight.
I was looking at doing the same thing on a 74 race firebird, trunk lid and rear bumper, then rethought it.