[rexs73gto]

This has been brought up several times over the last few years, it's about the use of the LS engines in the 73-77 A-bodies. In the past I have made my opinion known about putting them in our cars & I don't like putting a small block Chevy engine in our cars. But it has been said by some that the LS engines are not small block CHEVY engines, but they are corp. engines with not company designation. Most will say it's not a Chevy engine but a corp. engine made by GM for all the cars. Well I say B.S. it is a Chevy engine & will always be a chevy engine . It may be built by GM power train but it is a chevy engine & now we have PROOF. In the Dec. issue of Hot Rod mag. they have in the inside of this issue a history of the Chevy small block, & guess what they are saying is the latest version of the CHEVY SMALL BLOCK. You got it the LS engine. This is an article directly from Chevy, pardon me ,, Chevy doesn't want any of the dealer to refer to Chevy as any thing other then Chevrolet. Because Chevy say it makes the car seem less then what it is. But you know what every one including DR. Jamie calls it Chevy too. But back to the post. It is official the LS is a Chevy engine , so all those who say it's OK because it's not really a Chevy engine & they Chevrolet is saying the LS is theirs, there latest & best version of the Chevy small block. Now please don't get me wrong I don't hate Chevy's as I've had a few over the years but what I do hate is putting a Chevy engine in a Pontiac just because you can & want to replace 1 good engine for another good engine because you can't make your Pontiac engine run. So for you all that still want to argue about this , just grab a copy of the Dec. issue of Hot rod & read on. Then if you have any thing else to say bring proof or go with the facts.

[Scarebird]

[cuz68]

You cant always believe everything you read. If anyone wants to use one in there Pontiac that is ok by me, Remember it is there car.

[Sirrotica]

The GM small-block series was a "clean sheet" design with only the rod bearings in common in terms of shared parts with the classic Chevrolet small block V8. The basic layout owes a good deal to the essential concept of Ed Cole's original small-block design of 1954-55, though the small-block engine also uses design cues from Buick, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac engines.

As has been said already it is a combination of all the good points from all previous GM divisions V8 engines. Clean sheet of paper design that was designed engineered and manufactured by GM Powertrain.

Chevy never had a small block with the potential to make the power per cubic inch that the LSX engine series does. From 55-97 the SBC never was even close to the stock power output of the LSX engines. SBC always had the exhaust ports on the end ports and the middle ports, they never had a symmetrical IE layout. The RAV is the only GM engine that comes to mind with the same valve arrangement as the LSX series has, copied from the ford tunnel port BTW.

The truth is the LSX design is much closer to a ford SB, than it is a chevy SB, so do we want to call it the GM LSX designed by ford?

Chevy fans would love to take credit for the LSX design and if you continue to call it a chevy engine as they do, the common belief will continue to be that chevy designed it.

The truth is in 1992 the GM Powertrain group knew that the SBC was getting long in the tooth and they needed a world class V8 completely redesigned to take over for the archaic SBC. By 1997 they had a new design with nothing in common with the SBC except bore spacing.

It was hailed as the most advanced design pushrod V8 by many engineers in the auto industry. Now if you want to believe that the same group of engineers that couldn't get anywhere near the HP per cubic inch from their SBC were the same people that designed the LSX engine, be my guest. The engineers that chevy had couldn't design such an advanced package and to give them credit for such a world class design is foolish. The flat out didn't have the pool of talent to design and build such an engine.

Add to the fact that the LSX is a GM trademark not a chevy trademark pretty much shoots the theory that chevy designed it. The picture below shows who owns the trademark for the LS Series engines and Darton has it correct giving ownership to the correct group that is responsible for this engine.



GM Powertrain owns and runs every plant since 1997 that builds GM Powetrain parts. NO GM division owns manages or designs powertrain parts since 1997. This is a known fact that there is no division of GM that any longer builds or designs any powertrain parts.

Rex, you live in in Michigan, I would think that it would be pretty easy for you to substantiate what I've already put down here. The LSX series is erroneously called a chevy engine by many enthusiast magazines, Hot Rod is obviously one of them. The facts are all available to anyone that wants to do a little detective work, the LSX is NOT a chevy design or a chevy product, since GM Powertrain has had control of all the engine plants since 1997 it is impossible for it to be a chevy product.

There is a lot of material on the web to bear out what I've said, do the due diligence and find out the facts. Hot Rod magazine is not a good source to pull from, much better resources out there.

[rexs73gto]

Brad I understand what your saying & I have read all the posts & info about the LS series engine , but when I see an article about engines & it says right in there the info is directly from chevy sources. I know the engine was a clean slate block but Chevy does claim that this engine is theirs. In fact the early LS engines had the bow tie on the valve covers. Also I do understand that the engines are built at the GM power train Div. so I do acknowledge it's not in the Chevy plant , but ???? Plus I do know & have said it to before that to each there own when they build their cars , but for me it is a shame to put the LS/Chevy engine in a real Pontiac. The 3rd & 4th gen. birds no big deal as they are already just Camaro's with a slightly different skin. But it just seems just a shame to do that to a real Pontiac. It would be different if you couldn't get a real Pontiac engine any more but still want to drive your car, but there are still lots of Pontiac engine around.

[Sirrotica]

I also personally would not replace a Pontiac Stratostreak V8 in a car that came with one with an LS engine. I however cannot influence any other owners.

I formerly had a 97 TA with a LT1 and currently own an 05 GTO with an LS2. There is absolutely no comparison between the 2 engines and the LS2 is head and shoulders over the LT1. 120 more HP with only a displacement increase of 14 cubic inches over the LT1. 350 cubic inches 280 HP, Vs 364 cubic inches and 400 HP and 400 ft lbs of torque.

Having owned both engines in late model Pontiacs I have a direct comparison and there is little if anything to compare between the two.

The bowtie was used by GM as a marketing tactic because it was so recognizable. This information came from GM sources about the use of the bowtie. It was not indicating it was a chevy engine, but rather using public recognition of the bowtie for marketing purposes. While not saying the LS engines are chevy designs, GM is using the chevy racing heritage as a marketing ploy to push more product. Those are their trademarks so they are going to use them how they see fit to get maximum marketing from them.

Currently GM markets their LS engines as GM engines, and in recent advertisements I have no longer seen the bowtie used. I will not argue that early on there was some LS reference to a bowtie in the advertising, I believe that reference is no longer being used.

Since GM Powertrain now controls all of the engine manufacturing there is no doubt that the LS series is a true GM corporate engine from its inception to it being installed in GM cars as a finished product.

The engine is so versatile and well thought out there is no doubt that chevy owners want it to be a chevy design, it however had no input from the chevy division. The other thing that there is confusion over is that it is referenced as a small block, Gen III and Gen IV. Some people assume that if it's the successor of the chevy small block Gen I and Gen II that chevy is still making and designing it, not true.

Now for many years there are no longer any big blocks being installed in automobiles and if I'm not mistaken the big blocks have become extinct in GMC and chevy light trucks for about 10 years. 2009 was the final year it was available in a medium duty truck chassis. Now that the BB is only available in a crate engine, and not chassis installed, the LS series at this time is the only gasoline V8 that GM is using in cars and trucks.

It ranges from a 4.8 displacement to 7.2 displacement and in that regard it is similar to the Stratostreak engine being contained in the same external block dimensions. A 454 Cu. In. crate engine is the largest LS engine currently available and there has been talk of a taller deck block to increase the displacement further.

It is a well thought out engine and much simpler than some of the other competitors designs. GM drew from the best points of all their division engines and incorporated them into a pushrod V8 that has a huge potential as has already been demonstrated with results. The SBC is not the father of the LS engine, but there are ideas carried over from it, the same as other previous V8 designs from all GM divisions.

I've researched the LS engine and it's heritage fairly well and as far as I know the information I've given here is true to the best of my knowledge.

[rexs73gto]

Brad very well said & I do understand as i said but for me as Long as it has the Pontiac name on it & it came with the correct Pontiac engine I'm a die hard I like a lot will voice my opinion & say it's wrong to put anything other then the Pontiac engine in it. Thanks fro all the good info Rex.

[Fake Goat]

Well, I spent $$ rebuilding the 400 in my 74 Grand Am, and was pretty happy with the results. I just finished a rebuild of my 6.0 L LS2 for my '05 GTO, and I can tell you I would LOVE to put that engine in my Grand Am. Since the GA is not exactly a collector car, I would not think it would ruffle too many feathers. Fact of the matter is the LS engines have benefitted from decades of development and improvement.

Dollar for dollar, the only way I could make the kind of horsepower my 400 makes in my LS2 is if I were to pull 3 spark plug wires out.

[rexs73gto]

The engine I had in my 73 GTO last year before I had some problems & now have a 400 in it temp. The 462 made 535 HP with E-heads a RA IV blue print cam SRP forged pistons A Q-Jet Performer RPM intake RA IV cast iron exhaust manifolds & an M-22 , 4 spd. with 3:73 rear gears. It went 11:72 at 119 MPH. in the 1/4 mile. It didn't take that much to do that & will be back in in the spring. But you are mistaken your Grand Am is a very collectable car. Where as the 05 GTO which is a nice running car is not a collectable car. I don't know why everyone says they can't build a true Pontiac engine to run as good as an LS engine. It's not magic & can be done. The LS is a bit lighter but the Pontiac engine is as good & belongs in your Grand Am. Just my opinion !!!.