[OrigOwner77]

The 80 TA needs header gaskets (at least the passenger's side) replaced due to a small leak (slightly irritating tick at this point). I'm really dreading doing the job due to all the horror stories, but I'm also dreading how bad the car will sound if I keep putting the job off longer and longer.

The headers that came on the car when I got it were rusting through in a couple spots, AND there was what looked like NO gasket on the rear-most pass. side port (gasket was sectioned). I had some inexpensive Hedman headers put on about 10 years ago, that a local shop had to "massage" during install (the 68 400 sits offset in the engine bay due to motor mount adapters so some additional clearancing was required). Unfortunately cheap paper-type header gaskets were used.

If I already have to fight trying to break the header bolts loose, should I take the extra time & money to purchase & install Ram Air exhaust manifolds (I know a trip to the exhaust shop will be in order to get the exhaust to mate to the new manifolds)? Or should I just replace the header gaskets (or even just the leaking side) for now?

Since I've never actually done headers/gaskets myself on a Pontiac before, I'm not sure how bad the job will actually be.

Thanks!

[rexs73gto]

If you have never done them before your going to have a job before you. Pontiac headers are a PITA sometimes & unless you've done some a few times they will take you some time to do & you will use every wrench in your box. If the headers are good I would just replace the gaskets with some new copper gaskets that will last the life of the headers if you make sure there on correct & you come back every so often to retighten them every so often. If you go the other route & install RA exhaust they do go on a bit easier but are still a bit of a job to do. Either way I would say to use copper gaskets & they will again last the life of them. It's your decision on which route you go. The RA exhaust manifolds will cost you some extra money for the new front pipes to match up the your present pipes & you'll only be out the money for gaskets if you keep the headers right now. Either way you'l have skinned knuckles & do a lot of cussing while you do them. But use the copper gaskets they do work great. Plus you can reuse them several times before you have to buy a new set. I've had mine on & off about 6-7 times & they still seal great.

[70455HOVert]

I've had both...started with a set of Hooker Super Comps. I had to cut out the flange material between the pipes to get them to fit...also had to install stainless studs in a few holes to get them to mount...cut down a cheap wrench and made it my "header" wrench...I got pretty good at taking them off and on. Starter has to come off, and the car has to be about 2.5 feet high to get them rotated and out. I used the best steel core header gaskets I could find, smeared them with copper RTV, let it dry, and then installed...never really had a blow out at the head, always at the collectors. You can learn to cut out the bottom of the bolt hole in the gasket and then just loosen the header a bit and remove and replace from the top...makes it pretty easy.

The manifolds I installed with the engine out, so that was obviously easy. I've had zero issues with them in the past 4 years.

Seems like the car sounded deeper with the headers and more raspy with the manifolds.

Manifolds I installed

[OrigOwner77]

Thanks for the replies and advice. Think I'll attempt to just loosen each bolt. If I can get to them all & break them all free without trouble, I'll look at just doing the gaskets for now. Sounds like that job alone will keep me occupied nicely.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by 70455HOVert

I've had both...started with a set of Hooker Super Comps. I had to cut out the flange material between the pipes to get them to fit...also had to install stainless studs in a few holes to get them to mount...cut down a cheap wrench and made it my "header" wrench...I got pretty good at taking them off and on. Starter has to come off, and the car has to be about 2.5 feet high to get them rotated and out. I used the best steel core header gaskets I could find, smeared them with copper RTV, let it dry, and then installed...never really had a blow out at the head, always at the collectors. You can learn to cut out the bottom of the bolt hole in the gasket and then just loosen the header a bit and remove and replace from the top...makes it pretty easy.

The manifolds I installed with the engine out, so that was obviously easy. I've had zero issues with them in the past 4 years.

Seems like the car sounded deeper with the headers and more raspy with the manifolds.

Manifolds I installed

IMO, this is the best answer^^^.

If you use RTV you won't have header gasket problems, I coat the cheap gaskets that come with the headers on both sides, let them set up for 15 minutes or so and slide them in with the end bolts already started and the header hanging on the bolts. The RTV not only seals any slight imperfections, it also sticks the gaskets to the head and header flange. If they're glued to both surfaces they stay put. If you have to change the gaskets for any reason a razor blade peels the RTV off easily.
Cheap and effective.

I have changed and installed more Pontiac headers than the average person on this board, and have tried all the trick stuff over the years. Soaking the gaskets in water before install, double gaskets, cutting the flanges. Until I started using RTV I still had problems. RTV stopped any and all of the header gasket problems.

I have a set of Hooker Super Comps D port I put on 1976 T/A with RTV in 1988, still the original gaskets to this day and no leaks. 28 years is good enough for me.............

[rexs73gto]

I still like the copper gaskets as you can take them on & off several times if needed & they seal right back up because the copper is soft & will seal any & all imperfections in the heads or the headers & you can again take them on & off if needed to. They are a bit more but they do work great. I have heard about using the RTV before & yes it has had good luck , but I like the copper. Don't let anyone talk you into the Alum. gaskets as they don't have as good of a track record yet. ?? Remember Copper gaskets, there about $ 38.00 but well worth it. I forgot to mention I to have about 4 wrenches cut & bent to be able to get Pontiac headers on & off. Each one has a certain use for each bolt. You will to after you do them a few times. LOL.

[Squidward]

When you remove the header and gasket, see if there is enough metal overlap between the header tube and the exhaust port, as evidenced by soot and imprint patterns on the gasket. I had to weld extra material around my header tubes to accommodate my ported heads. I also had to use the garage floor and a file to true up the mating surface.

I used the Mr. Gasket ultra seal gasket, along with hi temp rtv. Before I was leaking on 3 of the 4 tubes on my driver side, and now it is air tight.

[NeighborsComplaint]

I run the Percy's aluminum gaskets. No leaks, haven't touched them in 3 years. I installed the copper gaskets on the collectors as I was always getting blowouts even with the Mr. Gasket Ultraseals. I do like the embossed copper ones for the collectors.

[Chris65LeMans]

I replaced a header gasket a couple of years ago - my passenger side one went.

Before I loosened the bolts, I tied the headers together with some ropes running over the engine. That helped immensely by keeping everything in place.

I used Remflex gaskets (highly recommended by the local Pontiac guys) and some Proform 66753 locking header bolts that I found on Jegs. I'm very happy with the results.

As for the "dreaded repair:" I found that it wasn't that bad - it just took time. Block off a whole Saturday for it, and you'll be ok. (I think it took me 4 hours or so.) I'm not terrified of doing it again, but I'm not replacing the (still good) drivers' side gasket yet, either.

[David Jones]

I run Doug's headers and have replaced the gaskets once, when I put my 455 in. I ordered a set of Doug's gaskets from Summit before I did the swap and the replacements were nothing like the original Doug's gaskets. The originals never leaked and to this point the new ones haven't either. I used a lite coat of RTV on both. One thing I've liked about the Doug's headers/bolts is the ability to tighten every single bolt with a simple Craftsman open end wrench.

[ANDYA]

I agree with the above posts, RTV red coated on both sides of the gasket will do the trick. I installed my Doug's headers four years ago and have had no leaks. The only other thing I did was to re-torque the header bolts after 100 miles. I would think that a quality header with a thick flange will always seal better/longer than cheap headers.

[djustice]

A quality Gasket would be my choice.
I was in a hurry to install my thin flange headmans (28150) and used the suplied papergasket. is lasted about 200 miles and it blew out midway on a roadtrip.

I swore when i installed my headers that i would not do it again, but the 2.nd time around was a bit less time consuming, still a hassle.

So i orderd oversized D-port Remflex gaskets as replacments, you can see in the Photos that the paper gasket edge around the ports had begin to burn away, i guess they did overhang the port and actually restriced flow. (77 stamped 6x-8 heads)

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[Sirrotica]

Without the RTV on the inexpensive gaskets once a leak starts it will consume the gasket causing a leak. Using the RTV and a proper tightening as well as a re-torque after a few heat cycles will head off the leaks.

If you only want to do the job once, proper materials and technique will serve you well. Then if you don't get it right the first time you can always buy the expensive gaskets and try it again. The cheaper gaskets need some help, and the RTV is the help they need.

In the photos posted above there is the obvious leak where material is missing, there are also areas here the carbon is visible where leaks are starting. the blowout portion also has a sealing bead problem as it has no witness marks near the hole. Whether the gasket was stamped incorrectly , or the sealing bead is off probably caused the failure. The RTV seals those marginal areas stopping the erosion of the parent gasket material by adhering the gasket to both the head and the header flange. Before the invention and manufacture of the more expensive gaskets (copper, aluminum, compressed ceramic fiber, etc.) the RTV was like day and night on header gasket durability. The white gaskets that come with most headers are somewhat fragile and prone to blow out. Using RTV on them makes them much less prone to the small leaks which remove the gasket material at the point of leaks.

My own two cars with Hooker headers the stock gaskets without RTV, one set of gaskets lasted a few months and roughly 2,000 miles. With RTV on another car the gaskets, the originals have been on the headers close to 30 years and at least 20,000 miles without a leak. there is a huge difference of durability with the RTV.

If your gaskets are lasting 200 miles your technique and possibly the flanges may be the reason. RTV will help, but re-torquing, and physical flange condition also need to be addressed. If the flange has issues, or the headers aren't kept tight with the bolts, no gasket or RTV will repair the problem.

Pontiac header gaskets are indeed a sore spot in the hobby as they are not easy to access on the lower portion of the exhaust dogleg. Bolt access is also a problem. Removing the motor mount bolts and jacking the engine up to gain better access to this area is very important to the success of installing header gaskets and having no leaks. I've installed plenty of headers and gaskets on my own cars as well as customer cars, I have come to the conclusion that if your using the stock style gaskets you absolutely need RTV. I have never bought the more expensive gaskets because the RTV bridges the gap and improves the seal exponentially.

[djustice]

Sirrotica: You are absolutly correct, This was my first header install ever (not counting a vw flat 4) after unbolting starter , oilfilter and oilfilter housing, and still not fitting, i had to do several rounds of bashing primary tubes. They finally went in after a whole day, i was in a hurry to finish up and botched bolt thigthning sequence and most likley uneven bolt tourqe. T he 2.nd time around (remflex pictures above) it went a lot smoother and i really wanted an even gasket crush along the flange, i used a torque wrench where i could, and tried to replicate that torque with shorty wrenches/ extention sockets.
I did discover permatex ultra copper RTV about 1 year after original header install, and that stuff is pure awsome in a tube

[frbformula]

You can buy ARP header bolts with a 5/16 wrench head on them. Using that small of a wrench makes tightening and putting the header bolts in way easier. Those are the only bolts I use now on Pontiac headers!

[post toastie]

remflex gaskets work great for headers