[etd66ss]

I might go look at a 67 project this week, here are a few pics here: http://imgur.com/a/8O3g4

I am a Chevelle guy and don't really know much about Firebirds. However, I am looking for a long term LS project, and if I can get this project car for cheap, maybe it is a good place to start.

I know the pics don't show much, but any feedback is appreciated, also, any tips on what I should be looking for when I inspect the car would be helpful.

I'm not up an the different models/trim classes of Firebird's in 67, so not exactly sure if this car is anything "special"...

[thews]

Just my 2 cents, but what you "save" in the initial cost on a project like this isn't worth it in the long run. Not sure what you'll pay for it, but it looks to have rust and rust costs the most to repair (unless you're skilled in body/paint work). If the car is taken apart, you can probably bet on parts missing. Paying more for a complete running car is a lot easier.

The caveat to this would be rarity. If you find a very rare car it may be worth it to bring it back to life, but, if you're going to do a restomod it really doesn't matter how rare it is. Good luck either way. One more old bird on the road is always a good thing.

[etd66ss]

Originally Posted by thews

Just my 2 cents, but what you "save" in the initial cost on a project like this isn't worth it in the long run. Not sure what you'll pay for it, but it looks to have rust and rust costs the most to repair (unless you're skilled in body/paint work). If the car is taken apart, you can probably bet on parts missing. Paying more for a complete running car is a lot easier.

The caveat to this would be rarity. If you find a very rare car it may be worth it to bring it back to life, but, if you're going to do a restomod it really doesn't matter how rare it is. Good luck either way. One more old bird on the road is always a good thing.

I am experienced in doing metalwork on cars, this is the project where I will "force" myself to learn bodywork/paint. I plan to pretty much do all the work myself. And yes, it would be an LS restomod, flushmount glass, etc.

I don't think it makes much sense if I can't get the car for $2500 at most.

I understand for a project like this, I will have more into the car than it will be worth when done, I'm not a flipper etc.

[thews]

Originally Posted by etd66ss

I am experienced in doing metalwork on cars, this is the project where I will "force" myself to learn bodywork/paint. I plan to pretty much do all the work myself. And yes, it would be an LS restomod, flushmount glass, etc.

I don't think it makes much sense if I can't get the car for $2500 at most.

I understand for a project like this, I will have more into the car than it will be worth when done, I'm not a flipper etc.

For $2500 I think you'd be paying too much. Not sure how much of a hurry you're in, but project cars come up fairly often on eBay. Guy buys a car and takes it apart. Has the engine done and the quarters, then it sits... time goes by. When selling a project like that, a lot of times it comes with a bunch of new parts. I've seen them in the $5K range and know there's twice that in them.

This car looks scary because the entire front end has been taken off. Was it crashed? Again, good luck, but finding the right car can be part of the fun. I bought my 69 convert of eBay about 5 years ago. Flew into St. Louis, checked the car out and loaded it on a U-Haul with all the parts and drove it home. I paid the guy in cash and was sure the title was valid... it was worth the drive.

[etd66ss]

Yeah, I think it is best to find a complete car, but ofc sellers want much more for a complete "barn find"...

It's getting harder to come across sellers who are reasonable about the value of their cars.

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

If the rust is minor, and the car has most of the body parts including the front frame I personally think is a descent deal. I live here in California and people are asking decent money for just shells. Ls engines are very popular.

[tanksteve]

Inspect for any damage to front subframe mounting locations, condition of front cowl, front and rear window frames. We don't know why the car was pulled apart. It appears to have a 400 hood. Check for 3F on the body tag for an original 400 car. If all looks good, looks like a good project to me. I have several cars that started out from a project like this one.

[thews]

This would be a cool car for someone who knew bodywork:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Fire...m=152166659897

[etd66ss]

Originally Posted by tanksteve

Inspect for any damage to front subframe mounting locations, condition of front cowl, front and rear window frames. We don't know why the car was pulled apart. It appears to have a 400 hood. Check for 3F on the body tag for an original 400 car. If all looks good, looks like a good project to me. I have several cars that started out from a project like this one.

So that shows up in the trim tag and not the VIN tag?

[tanksteve]

right, look at the trim tag. The First Generation Firebird website will give you more info on trim tags:
http://firstgenfirebird.org/1967-inf...g-information/

[68azbird]

Originally Posted by thews

This would be a cool car for someone who knew bodywork:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Fire...m=152166659897

F that
Done enough cars in that condition, not worth it. better have a suitcase full of money

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by 68azbird

F that
Done enough cars in that condition, not worth it. better have a suitcase full of money

IDK... depends on what the goal would be. As a beater/ratty looking driver, it could be a fun project. But make it look shiny and nice? Yeah, be prepared to take a bath $$$! As I get older I realize that I'd rather start off with nicer projects.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by etd66ss

I might go look at a 67 project this week, here are a few pics here: http://imgur.com/a/8O3g4

I am a Chevelle guy and don't really know much about Firebirds. However, I am looking for a long term LS project, and if I can get this project car for cheap, maybe it is a good place to start.

I know the pics don't show much, but any feedback is appreciated, also, any tips on what I should be looking for when I inspect the car would be helpful.

I'm not up an the different models/trim classes of Firebird's in 67, so not exactly sure if this car is anything "special"...

The '67 Bird's cowl is stamped for factory AC. Having factory AC precludes the '67 Bird from being a factory 400 4spd car. That would most likely be a deal breaker for me, if I was predisposed to pump quite a bit of time, $$$$, and effort into a '67 Bird, it better be something desirable.

Disassembled project cars. Over and over here on PY, I often read how a disassembled project is a bad deal. Having over the last 3 decades hauled in over 600 Pontiac parts and project cars, one thing that gets ignored, when one is contemplating picking up a project car that the front clip is disassembled and the interior is out, one can carefully examine every square inch of the sheet metal with it being blown apart. Personally, if I'm paying what I consider a premium for a vehicle as a project car or expensive partscar, I find it advantageous to be able to carefully examine all the important parts. Sure such a vehicle will be more difficult to load and haul, but I'm not paying a transporter to deliver such a vehicle.

Typically, when I see pics of a project car on eBay, Craigslist, etc, all together, often with panels in cheap gray primer, or poor quality fresh repaint, I get an uneasy feeling. Whats hiding under that cheap primer or finish? In my region, and am sure the following crap goes on elsewhere, for quite a while, there were fellows dragging in what I call cheap field cars. Maybe, they were in a private boneyard, maybe they sat out behind a trailer or barn for decades. Wherever, they had been parked, they set outside and the sheetmetal and interior trim was typically very weathered. Unfortunately, in a turn and burn practice to make $$$$, such terd field cars then received a quick scuff and coat of single stage paint. Next to no metal prep done, no rust fixed in typical areas, window channels, etc. Once close to done, often the "project", gets a set of cheap used 17" tires and shiny wheels to help attract young guys interest. On the eBay pics, the unbuffed single stage paint appears like a faded original paint or "day 2" repaint. Of course, that's what the seller is trying to convey with the project, and of course it gets a lot of bids, as there are a few very naive buyers out there, along with the schills. A nightmare awaiting the purchaser, you bet! Give me a chance at a project in its actual state, disassembled, rather see them that way, any day.

[tanksteve]

They are all valid points. Personally, i want to build my own projects. I want it my way and i want it done right. My last project was a 68 Bird 400/4spd, the engine and transmission long gone. It was not even a rolling shell. It took 2 years and cost $18,000 to completely finish, that figured everything including parts from my inventory. But its the way I wanted it, 2-stage professionally done paint job, 461/turbo 400 with 12 bolt rearend, Moog suspension and steering parts. I used a 67 trans shifter and accelerator linkage because i prefer mechanical linkage. It has Legendary interior with 69 seats. I know every inch of the car, there are no cheap parts on it Its all a matter of what you want.

The big issues in a project like this are: how much rust, how much existing body damage, and how many missing parts? I have parts on hand from past parts cars and access to parts from a top notch Camaro restorer in the area.

The last issue is the title. If it has a title, are there unpaid back fees? If no title, i just do a lien sale.

[etd66ss]

Originally Posted by tanksteve

They are all valid points. Personally, i want to build my own projects. I want it my way and i want it done right. My last project was a 68 Bird 400/4spd, the engine and transmission long gone. It was not even a rolling shell. It took 2 years and cost $18,000 to completely finish, that figured everything including parts from my inventory. But its the way I wanted it, 2-stage professionally done paint job, 461/turbo 400 with 12 bolt rearend, Moog suspension and steering parts. I used a 67 trans shifter and accelerator linkage because i prefer mechanical linkage. It has Legendary interior with 69 seats. I know every inch of the car, there are no cheap parts on it Its all a matter of what you want.

The big issues in a project like this are: how much rust, how much existing body damage, and how many missing parts? I have parts on hand from past parts cars and access to parts from a top notch Camaro restorer in the area.

The last issue is the title. If it has a title, are there unpaid back fees? If no title, i just do a lien sale.

Well, Cars in New York state older than 1981 never had titles. Since the add says title status: missing, I assume the current owner has no proof of sale from when he acquired it, that would be a problem for me.

I guess in response to the last few posts, my ideal project car is one that is taken apart enough that I can see the sheet metal. A car that has no primer on it, a car that no one has done a hackjob putting qtr's on it themselves, or done any of their own bodywork. Basically an original car with minimal rust that someone disassembled, then found out they were way over their head. The problem with that kind of project is the risk of missing parts. I'm a Chevelle guy, I can't look at a bunch of boxes of Firebird parts and know that everything is there. I asked the owner if he KNOWS all the parts are there, his response was "I don't know if any parts are missing, you'll have to come take a look"...

Anyways, I am buying this toy on Monday: http://i.imgur.com/lCUphYT.jpg

So I might put buying a project car on hold for now.

[thews]

Originally Posted by 68azbird

F that
Done enough cars in that condition, not worth it. better have a suitcase full of money

I sort of agree with you. Rust is evil and the most expensive to fix. On my 69 convert, I had a $10K quote for the paint, which included both quarter panels.

If you buy a car with the quarters replaced, you'll pay for it. Here's a good example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Fire...m=232015366849

At $8500 it's a good start. He says the engine had been rebuilt in 97, but it's a 2bbl engine. The point is that people will want at least 60% of the $ spent. If you know bodywork, spending $2K for a basket case may be worth it.

If you're looking for a rust free car, it prolly has to come from the West. CA, NV, NM etc. I bought my 75 TA out of CA sight unseen and was very pleased with it.

[68azbird]

Depends how they hung the quarters. I've picked out birds at car shows where they hung camaro quarters and grafted in the gills. You can always make out the square outline right through the paint job around the gills. Same with the overlapping seam where quarter panels are hung. To do it correctly takes a lot of time and therefore a lot of money.
One of the most hack jobs I seen done on a bird was someone actually took a brand new trunk pan and did not cut out the old one. They used bathroom caulking and pop rivets to hold the new pan down on top of the original rusted pan.