[Yater]

Hi there,

Long time since I last posted. Very busy over the past months... but still managed to find some time for my 73 Firebird...

I thought this section of the forum would be better suited to update you guys on my project, for those interested...

I did a presentation in "The Lobby" some months ago, link below for those who want to see "the origins".

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=785827


Long story short, I am based in Europe, brought the car from the US about 2 years ago and did quite some upgrades since then.... new paint, suspension (QA1 control arms at the front, Ridetech composite leafs at the rear, new Koni shocks), new brakes, pads and callipers, LED interior lights, complete audio / sound system, electrical system, DCC PWM fan controller for the Ron Davis radiator & fans, new exhaust line from mufflers to tips... and recently installed a Fitech Go Efi system which appears to be working really nicely so far... In the coming 1-2 months I will install also a Vintage Air Surefit A/C system. Well... the list is really too long...
Still didn't do anything (apart from the Efi) with the engine but I'm starting to seriously consider some future upgrades... we'll see...

Not an easy "adventure" since being based in Europe does not make things easy:
- freakin expensive shipping & customs costs
- some US manufacturers & aftermarket sellers may not ship overseas
- very few knowledgeable shops here (and I can't do the "big things" myself...)
- many times you buy stuff "half-blind" and you kind of make a bet, but difficult to benefit from any "return programme" in case the part doesn't fit or work...
- I have to say I found lots of help and support, really good guys willing to give a hand and advice via web forums, but also with the tech. support of some big & small manufacturers and sellers. From time to time a few people may be be kind of "scared" of talking or trusting someone calling from overseas, but in very rare cases. Most of the time I can only be grateful for the great help and advice I have received !

But hey ! not easy but still VERY NICE experience for sure !

Here's the result as of today, just a few pics:
























Hope you guys enjoy it.

I will most likely sooner than later start asking you for some guidance and advice on potential improvements (mild) for the engine. Let's see .... :-)

[SD73]

That looks nicely done! I gotta ask, what's the general reaction to that car out there? Do they have any idea what a bird is?

[Yater]

I really like the question...
In general "most" people will ask... "Hey, this is a Mustang, right?". LOL...
Said that we have quite a few "American car clubs" here so the bird is in relatively good company....

Originally Posted by SD73

That looks nicely done! I gotta ask, what's the general reaction to that car out there? Do they have any idea what a bird is?

[72projectbird]

Beautiful car! I really like the color.

[Yater]

Thanks!
It was originally red. The new color really changed the character of the car I have to say.
Colors are always very personal of course...

Originally Posted by 72projectbird

Beautiful car! I really like the color.

[Yater]

I have to add that in general the 2nd and 3rd most typical questions after clarifying that there IS life beyond Mustangs are:

- wow! Must be at least a BY
- what engine size? 3 - 4 liters ?
- how much HP ? (Most people here Leah's ignore or even don't know / care about TQ)
- must consume quite a lot of gasoline, right?

Obviously when you provide answers to the 4 questions above people tend to fell down their chairs ..... :-)

People tend to like these cars a lot over here but 1) they find it difficult to understand what the motivation for someone could be to own one of them and you're perceived like some kind of "freak" (I guess that's partially true...), And 2) the bureaucracy, paperwork, time needed and costs of bringing one from the US discourage most people. And many of the ones available in Europe may have been "tuned" with IMO a questionable taste to say the least ...

Originally Posted by Yater

I really like the question...
In general "most" people will ask... "Hey, this is a Mustang, right?". LOL...
Said that we have quite a few "American car clubs" here so the bird is in relatively good company....

[unruhjonny]

interesting.
I have never seen a mono-leaf spring like that before in a second gen.

thanks for popping in to share this

[bird72]

Nice car and that dash rocks....

[Yater]

Originally Posted by bird72

Nice car and that dash rocks....

Here it is before painting the car, installing the LED bulbs, stereo and safety toggle for the electric fans...




Here it is with the LED bulbs at night, although the quality of the picture is not very good, since it is not as bright as it appears

[Yater]

This one is actually better and more recent...

[njsteve]

Awesome car, What exacty is that color?

[Yater]

Hi, thanks.
Its for sure not an original one.
At the time about 2 yrs ago I spent a few months trying to find a color I would like and that -to my taste at least- would "suit" the car.
I can try to find the reference, don't remember exactly right now. Will try to look and see if I kept it somewhere.

Originally Posted by njsteve

Awesome car, What exacty is that color?

[njsteve]

I've been looking for a real cool blue for an eventual repaint of my Gramma's 1975 Firebird. Your car's color looks great. Please see what you can dig up on the name/model year of that blue.

[Norwood]

Great looking Bird

[Formulabruce]

Great Pics, thanks for posting! And congrats to the guy who Blocked your car, its Flat and smooth, and it SHOWS!

[Bentwheelbob]

Very nice car with a great look and workmanship. Thanks for sharing. I can't imagine how fun it must be to have such a cool American muscle car in Europe. What country are you in?

[Yater]

Hi and thanks for the nice comments.

I wonder if you think it could be possible that someone knows who may have initially started restoring this car ?

One problem I'm facing is that I'd like to start doing something to wake the engine up a little bit but I have no clue of what was done to it previously. According to the previous owner it was rebuilt I guess 4/5 years ago but don't know how.

The car was originally red and had the wooden sash without the stock gauges and none of the engine goodies such as Ron Davis radiator, March serpentine system, etc. Didn't have the rear disc brakes neither for instance. But someone did a quite good job in restoring all the underbody and basically all the car, put the AR wheels, installed a 400ci engine and a TH400 (the car started a his life as an Esprit 350) and added a formula hood. That's when the engine was rebuilt.
I tend to think that this person restored more or less at the same time a red and a see blue 73 Firebird which were both sold to Trans Am Florida.

The car then at some point around 2013 I guess was sold to Trans Am Florida.

The person I bought the car from purchased from TA Florida and had them doing a lot of upgrades to the car, but had little info on what was done to the car before that.

Does it ring a bell, anyone ??

[Yater]

Hi again,
Just waking up on this side of the Atlantic...

I'd like to seek your advice on some potential engine upgrades. After upgrading quite a lot the car in many aspects, I am starting to think about the engine.

Not sure if it's better to post here or rather in the STREET section. I'll copy the post if you recommend Street instead.

Here's the deal:

1- USAGE: this car will be a weekend driver. The idea is basically to enjoy it with my family. The car will see street driving around town and cruising. I like some "spirited" driving from time to time but nothing wild. Nothing like racing, strip or 1/4 mile, autocross whatsoever. Just would like to wake-up the car a bit. I prefer good driveability.
Another important driver is reliability / durability. Since it's hard to find competent shops around here, I would avoid anything requiring frequent maintenance, or something too "delicate".

2- BUDGET: this is a strong driver. I already spent way more than I initially thought (I guess that sounds familiar to many...).
I can't do the works myself and any competent shop here in Europe that knows a bit about american cars quickly becomes quite expensive.
As an example: my shop charged me 2.600 USD for installing the Fitech and new leaf springs (I supplied all the material and parts). Milling a pair of heads and doing basic head prep work would be around 1200-1500 USD. If I would bring a new engine to replace mine, just swapping the engine would be about 1300 USD or more.
Also, I would need to buy and ship all parts from the US to Europe. Shipping and custom duties makes it even more expensive.
So I am looking for spending wisely while keeping in mind the true end usage I will make out of the car.

3- MY CURRENT SET-UP:
- 400 ci engine.. Rebuilt around 2013 but I have no clue of what was done (don't know if it was bored or zero decked, don't know about pistons or cam -although it sounds and behaves as a basic, fairly stock rebuilt-).
- It's a 557 block (I know is the "weak" one) from around 1975-77, don't remember.
- 6x-8 low compression heads with stock internals.
- TH400 trans (was also rebuilt at the same time apparently).
- Hurst Dual Gate shifter.
- Most likely stock torque converter.
- 2.41 posi rear gears.
- MSD HEI distributor.
- FiTech Go Efi 600.
- March serpentine pulley system.
- Will add a Vintage Air A/C next month.
- Power brakes (4 discs).
- Ron Davis aluminum radiator with twin electric fans, DCC PWM controlled.
- Edelbrock Performer (not RPM) intake
- stock cast exhaust manifolds running into 2 separate 2-1/4 or 2-1/2 exhaust lines going to flowmasters (don't know what model).
- Speed limit is 75-80 mph. I currently cruise at that speed at around 2000 rpm which is nice.
- I have 95 and 98 "european" (RON) octane gas (wish I could have at the US prices...). From what I know any octane rating in Europe equals to about 4-6 oct. less in USA, meaning our 95 oct. here would be similar to 91 oct in the US.

I know most people recommend swapping the gears and getting rid of the 2.41 but for that I would need to change the carrier and the whole thing becomes quite expensive here. Plus, the fact of considering how the car is used here, I won't be doing any radical acceleration, no stoplight to stoplight racing... rather city driving, mountain roads and national/highway roads. Beyond the pure cost issue, I tend to think that I would like to keep the 2.41's for cruising. Not sure if the Dual Gate shifter can somehow also help here since I understand I could "manually" set my shifting points for "launches". In a nutshell I would like to have a bit more punch in performance and take-off while preserving the good things of a lazy rear gear when cruising.

So, the options I have considered, please feel free to provide your comments or other options you consider that may address my points above:


* * * OPTION 1 * * *
Do "NOTHING" and simply drive the car "as is". Not to be excluded frankly speaking.... yes, it feels a bit lazy in take-off, but hey, cruising is good, so it's all about compromises, right....


* * * OPTION 2 * * *
- milling the 6x-8 by approx 0.04 or 0.05 (that alone costs about 1300-1400 USD here but still less expensive that a pair of new alum Edelbrock heads...)
- maybe I could use a factory 1971 intake which I understand flows a bit better ?.
- maybe also some Ram Air manifolds ? (Starts to get expensive all that... Damn....... ). I heard headers are a PITA for maintenance.
- using a new cam like Lunati 10510700 or 10510701 (why not some other brands too of course), that I understand would increase a bit compression + increase low RPM torque (for improved take off despite the lazy rear gears) and can work with A/C, power brakes, etc. And probably work with stock converter. Parts + labor for a cam swap here still expensive though ...
- not sure if I would need new rocker arms, valve springs, etc etc
- not sure if my HEI should be recurved ? No clue on how to assess if it's well tuned or how to retune it but I can certainly ask my shop here.
- said that , since I don't even know for instance what pistons does the car have, maybe I'm doing all that for a marginal performance gain .... ?
- in any case I would appreciate your advice on whether you think it's a combo that could work with my current driveline and gears..

*** OPTION 3 ***
Instead of mixing components and trying to figure out if those will work well together + knowing that I have a 557 block......
An alternative be purchasing a new engine in the US and shipping it here. That way I would be sure that everything has been "designed" to work together from scratch.
The best I've found cost wise is Len Williams. Said that I have contacted a few builders here and there for advice, I guess maybe I could ask for a budget-minded build considering my intended usage?
Also I've seen some 2nd hand rebuilt engines from time to time. Some nice 461's out there for instance.... but I wonder if those won't be "overkill" and "overengineered" for my needs. I think in most cases those are built more pùre-performance oriented, and maybe targeting higher RPM power bands that what I would use 95% of the time.
The company that shipped my car in 2914 from Florida through NYC to Europe can ship the engine for about 1500 USD including customs . The engine swap would be charged about another 1500 USD by a local shop here.

*** OPTION 4 ***
- Similar to option 2, but I understood that maybe it could be more cost-efficient to have someone in the US preparing a set of heads (i.e. milled 6x-4 ??), and recommending a cam / lifters, etc combo that I could ship, so that the upgrade would be as "plug & play" as possible here in Europe.
In any case I am still afraid of a quite high invoice from the shops here for anything that you guys consider as even "basic"....

At some point I think I saw a section about "members helping members". Maybe I may post and see if anyone would be open to help me in sourcing some parts and shipping them using eBays Global system, which is extremely competitive from a cost perspective. We'll see.

Well, that's it. Thanks a lot to those who read the whole post. I realize now it's quite long....

Any ideas are welcomed.

Thanks !!!!

[johnta1]

Nice Bird!



On the engine (and other stuff), this would be a good time to learn how to do some of the work.



It's not really that hard.
(not the machining part, just the mechanical stuff)

A new engine may be better in your case since you would have to have all the parts delivered over there anyway.

But swapping the engine out is not really that hard, but need some tools.
(which can always be used forever)

A slightly higher stall speed converter may help the launch also.
If the engine is being swapped, the converter would be installed then.

[Yater]

Hi John,
Thanks a lot for your comments. And for your great website, that it's been of so much help in my preliminary research...

While I get your point on the DIY engine upgrades or even engine swap... there are 2 things that I whish we had over here in Europe compared to the US:
- cheap gas
- nice big garages where one can have the car, tools, etc. Unfortunately, on this side of the Atlantic flats and tiny parking spaces are the common trend...
So whether I like it or not, I need to through a shop, either for upgrades or for a swap ...

Any thoughts on the different options that I have in my radar ?

Thx again!

Originally Posted by johnta1

Nice Bird!



On the engine (and other stuff), this would be a good time to learn how to do some of the work.



It's not really that hard.
(not the machining part, just the mechanical stuff)

A new engine may be better in your case since you would have to have all the parts delivered over there anyway.

But swapping the engine out is not really that hard, but need some tools.
(which can always be used forever)

A slightly higher stall speed converter may help the launch also.
If the engine is being swapped, the converter would be installed then.