[AMX guy]

Are the invoice date on the PHS and the build date the same normally ?

[Bluesugar]

I don't think so,but,..John V. from this forum could give a lecture on this subject
that would address any issues or,...just try and search and scratch your head!

[John V.]

Depends on a no. of factors...

I'm not conversant with all years, so depends on what model year, I'm more confident of some years than others.

But generally...

Check the Identification No. on the Invoice. If the 1st character is a "Z" the car was initially shipped and "invoiced" to a Zone for Zone Stock inventory.

Such builds were shipped again from Zone Stock once they were wholesaled to a retail Dealer and a new Invoice was generated. So the Date Shipped on this 2nd Invoice (and with few exceptions, the only record PHS will have for the car) will be days, weeks, even months after the car was final assembled.

If the 1st character is a "P" then the car was sold to a Dealer essentially at the moment it rolled off the line and the "Date Shipped" is probably within 24-48 hours of when it rolled off the line, possibly even same day although I have no evidence to support the exact timing. But PMD would want to Invoice for these cars immediately limited only by how long it took to generate the paper. Suffice to say however that this would be very close to the date it rolled off the line.

There are other dates on the Invoice. If the 3rd character of the ID No. is an "A", the dealer buying the car was able to make use of GMAC wholesale credit to finance his inventory.

GMAC offered very favorable terms. Although the dealer was immediately invoiced, the GMAC interest clock did not start ticking right away and the dealer also received a cash discount if he paid off the note within a small window. This gave the dealer time for the car to arrive after transport and get it sold before he had to pay any interest. This is why the dealer is motivated to sell a car that has sat too long in his inventory. Once the "grace" period expired, he the cash discount and the interest clock started ticking, the combination deeply eating into his profit. So he would cut a better deal just before the "grace" period expired to avoid all that. And preferably sold it to take maximum advantage of the cash discount as well.

Invoices to dealers that were not extended GMAC wholesale credit will look a little different. A 3rd character "B" would indicate a dealer that had to use another financing source (often his local bank) to finance his purchases. And a dealer that was on cash terms (Sales Class "C") might have a car held up until he could fund the purchase. Obviously, dealers that could not obtain a GMAC wholesale credit line were at a disadvantage.

[GT182]

I found that vehicles that came off the assembly line were loaded and delivered within 48 to 72 hours. They might sit in the plant's lot for up to 2 days and 2 to 3 days before delivered to the dealer. Not all of our loads out of St. Therese were "straight" loads.... all cars going to one dealer. Sometimes we delivered 1 to a dealer until all were off. And that could be an area as large as New England and NY combined. The area for St. Therese plus PA, NJ, VA, W. VA, and Ohio, My first carhaul rig in '78 carried 7, the next was 8, and that last rigs we drove carried 10.

Also trains loads of cars took longer to deliver. I was once in Detroit in 1976 staying in the rail yard on a crew car for Speno Ballast Cleaners out of Syracuse, NY. Next to us were 20 or so rail cars with Cadillacs on them that sat there for the 3 days we were stuck there. Dates on the window sticker info figured out that they'd been there a week before we were. And they were still there when we left.

[Keith Seymore]

Gary might appreciate this:

When I had my '87 pickup built I followed it as it went down the line; I drove it myself off the end of the line and over to the shipping building.

I told the foreman "Lloyd - that's my truck" and then left the plant about 1 am.

By 5pm that same day it was sitting in the lot at Uptegraff Chevrolet in Davison (9 miles away).

I had to wait two days for the paperwork. Still had to pay $525 destination charge, too.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Anyway, more on topic: the "build date" that is recorded has a little float in it. It is not set in stone and the documented date could be off a day or so one way or the other compared to reality.

In the aforementioned truck story the recorded build date was Monday Sept 29 1986 but since I was there I know that it was actually completed a day later.

K

[66GTO Jim]

Here is another PHS Invoice Code.

The PHS for my 66 GTO Convertible shows the Invoice# starts with "PN". Since it was sold new at the Pontiac Retail Store, I suspect the "N" represents the Pontiac internal billing procedure. That is just a guess but probably accurate. This GTO was purchased by a PMD employee who worked nearby at the Pontiac Administration Building.

The window sticker shows:

DEALER TO WHOM DELIVERED: PONTIAC MOTOR DIV RETAIL STORE

The PHS shows the Pontiac Retail Store as Zone 07 Dealer 631. The address was 65 University Drive, Pontiac, MI. The building was still there last time I was in Pontiac, but I was told that it has since been torn down.

Jim

[AMX guy]

My car has a Feb 15th build date , and later in the paperwork I found it signed into warranty by the original owner on Feb 26th. but the car was built and sold in San Francisco .

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by AMX guy

My car has a Feb 15th build date , and later in the paperwork I found it signed into warranty by the original owner on Feb 26th. but the car was built and sold in San Francisco .

Built in Fremont, perhaps. But not San Francisco.

K

[AMX guy]

Other side of the bay so pretty close. it's all California to me.